Problem Saving Games

[DominionsFan]

Lads, I think that we gotta agree with new newbies. I don't see anything bad with having a save function, since you can backup your games anyways. That way they wouldn't have to do it.
Everyone who says that saving is cheating...well no comment. Now that the game is much better for SP fans also, a save function should've been added if you ask me. [Actually this is weird, I never thought that a save function would be so necessary, but that is probably because I am not a Doms newbie, but I try to "see" this from their perspective, so I can understand that they would like to see a save function in the game..]
Just my 0.02

[Tortanick]

Putting it there makes it so much more tempting, besides I'm of the forces them to learn side. Maby I'm wrong and experimenting is the key with easy backed up saves but my instincts say living with your mistakes is the only way to learn not to make them.

[PhilD]

OK, the "save game" feature is already there, only it's inconvenient as hell (it's called "save game, rename files manually, reload game").

What good is there in making people sweat over saving their games? The "it's good to learn" argument makes no sense - it's not like not making mistakes in Dom3 games were an important skill in today's society (I'm a teacher, and we deliberately make some things harder for the students - but then there is a good reason for this; with Dom3, we're talking about a GAME, whose only real purpose is to provide ENTERTAINMENT and FUN to the player - and for most people, juggling around with computer files is not particularly entertaining or fun).

In other words, not providing an in-game save function is just silly. I'll even go further: since the game doesn't let you see what the situation was X turns earlier, an automatic "backup files before hosting/sending orders" mechanism would be really useful for those long PBEM games - together with an easy way of loading a previous turn.

[Morkilus]

Eh, I take it back I guess. The thing is, I'm not surprised save/loading isn't supported heavily given that there are links to roguelikes on the devs' website.

[DominionsFan]

PhilD said:
The "it's good to learn" argument makes no sense -

Actually it does. Playing an SP game is very different in the first 30 mins and after 2 hours. This is not an ordinary TBS game. You always have new options as the time is passing. The save function would good for these newbies, so they could continue from a point, correct their errors, and continue the game from there...after that they could discover the mid/late game content also.
They can learn the game anyways, but it would be much easier with that save function for them, this is for sure.

[MarcinM]

I'm a new Dominions player, and when I met the Kailasa holy units for the first time my army got nearly wiped out. Due to a long-time playing games that allow save anywhere I instantly reached for that button...and found out it wasn't there.

I played the rest of the game and defeated them because of that setback. If the option for a quicksave was there, I probably would not have learned from my setbacks.

So that's one newbie vote for no quicksave

[Mortibus]

I like the "ironman" style of play myself.

However, I understand the complaints of other new players besides me. I'm sure that a mod will be released in the future for those who want more control over save files.

But if I had a vote, I'd say keep it the way it is.

It's a niche game for a reason... it's different. This is one of the differences. Yes, it's very "old school" and behind the times, some people like that. Don't hate us because we're old. We can't help it.

[freykin]

My view on this is that it's kind of like nethack and other roguelikes, where in those games when you die, you die, and have to start over. If I could have saved in those games, I would have finished them long ago and they wouldn't be nearly as much fun.

That said, while I would never use a save feature, in a game like this I think it should be included for those who would. The only downside to it being in that I can think of is getting used to relying on it, then going into an MP game and getting destroyed because of that reliance.

[PvK]

IW balanced the game with the idea that people would play it without frequently restoring to a saved position whenever their favorite wood elf died, even though they sent her into a situation where she had a 90% chance of dying.

Players coming from extensive experience with the craptastic ocean of games where players are expected to do things that should get them killed 90% of the time, and are expected to restore to a saved position tons of times as part of the gameplay, would tend to use that in Dominions too if it were an option easily at hand. The result is they might not even realize they weren't really supposed to do that, and would cheat themselves out of having a much better experience, and might even whine about how "easy" the game is, etc.

PvK

[Potatoman]

Failing to support saving/loading is a huge mistake. One of the reasons dominions is so difficult to learn is because you can never revisit a decision and observe how different actions yield different results. Experimentation is discouraged in a game with the knowledge that, if something bad happens, you'd need to replay for 2+ hours to reach that position again. Everyone I've showed Dominions off to has found it incredibly backwards that a game with such a huge learning curve is so unforgiving about mistakes. I know I've wished for the ability to go back a turn and undo a game-destroying minor mistake or fluke (e.g. that newly summoned group of Summer lions got default-placed in the middle of my force and they burned 20 friendly mages to death with their auras on round 2 of combat) way too many times. You're essentially playing the entire game in Ironman mode- and while that's fine for hardcore fans, it's anathema for anyone unfamiliar with the system or less serious about the game.

If this were a democracy I'd place my vote for a real save/load mechanic. Because it's not, I'm just going to urge Johan or Kristoffer, if they're reading this, to DEFINATELY put in a save/load. People will love you for it.