Problem Saving Games

[Mortibus]

Well, I disagree, no harm in that, is there?

I find it refreshing to play a game that's different, one in which the usual save/load shuffle is no longer an issue.

Like you said, almost all other games have the save and reload feature. Some people don't like that. This game is for those people.

The save and reload fans have enough games already, don't you think?

[KissBlade]

Save and Reload can appease both types. If you're a stickler, then just don't use it. Simple as that. Unless you're saying you don't like it because you'll want to reload? That makes little sense to me actually. And to say "The save and reload fans have enough games already, don't you think?" just sounds a little off to me.

[Frostmourne27]

KissBlade said:
Save and Reload can appease both types. If you're a stickler, then just don't use it. Simple as that. Unless you're saying you don't like it because you'll want to reload? That makes little sense to me actually. And to say "The save and reload fans have enough games already, don't you think?" just sounds a little off to me.

That is pretty much what I'm saying. It's not that I'm 'weak-willed' (a better test of willpower would be like, refraining from personal atacks on the forums for a week or two) it's just that I don't want that option. It's like saying DnD is too easy: play without a cleric. I want to use all the options out there. I don't want this as an option because I don't want to be paying for a game that has features that are (IMHO) spurious and unneeded - that would be a waste of the developers time, my money, and my time. Would you be happy if Dom3 came with a 500$ gold ingot attatched, and you had to pay an extra 500$? even though gold prices are rising and you could maybe offset the extra expence of shipping it all the way to wherever?
When people complained about the lack of difficulty in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, Nival's lead developer suggested playing without saving/reloading. People were furious, saying that it was a demonstration of the grossly capitalistic game industry that tries to make money, not games. Atleast Illwinter isn't like that. However, they aren't conventional. They do some strange things. This concept, along with the idea of allowing certain spells to be banned from cast by mages, has been around for quite a while, and is fairly simple to implement, I think that they probably look upon it as a bad thing.

[KissBlade]

Exchanging $500 dollar gold ingots and ignoring a save/reload option are not apt analogies. And Heroes of Might and Magic 5 is a totally different game because it was too easy because the AI was inept. To suggest playing without saving/reloading would've made very little difference.

[Frostmourne27]

KissBlade said:
Exchanging $500 dollar gold ingots and ignoring a save/reload option are not apt analogies. And Heroes of Might and Magic 5 is a totally different game because it was too easy because the AI was inept. To suggest playing without saving/reloading would've made very little difference.

What (should) make a game difficult other than AI? A game should be sufficiantly hard that losses vs. the AI are common (like maybe 30-40% of the time) but it should allways be close. As for the analogy, it's not the greatest, but it's not too bad, even if it's far fetched: It's an added 'feature', since it is basically decreasing the eventual cost of the game, but it isn't really something that many people will want. The differance (other than the rediculous scope of a 500$ gold ingot) is that MOST people want save games, whereas most people don't want to become envolved in speculating on the prcie of gold.

[Kristoffer O]

> And thats just stupid. Illwinter is in the market to make money. So your saying poeple would would like saving and reloading just shouldnt buy the game? Instead of you just not using that feature.

Actually were not in the market to make money, not me at least, and I think JK shares this sentiment to a degree. Money is nice, but I don't know what to do with it.

Still, we like it if people like our game and might change it in that direction, even though it is more important if we like our game

I'm personally quite fond of the no-save functionality, but I can understand if people prefer saveability. It would probably mean some 'meckande' to make it work, and there are other features and bugs that will need a fix, so don't count on a change in the first patch.

Still, it is nice to hear what people think, so keep up the discussion.

[NTJedi]

I would say don't add the save feature because I have some nephews which sometimes play the game and if the save feature is added they will cheat not only in SP, but MP games against each other causing arguments, accusations and other messes.
The nephews know nothing about editing game files or even just browsing with windows explorer so this game provides great fun and peace when they visit.

[Potatoman]

Not supporting save/load punishes non-expert players and stretches the game's learning curve. The Wish situation I described happened in my first Dom3 game; it left me dissatisfied because I felt that I could not have avoided that situation unless forewarned. I also think that this is not a terribly rare occurrance in a vast vast game like dominions that gives you so many opportunities to make catastrophic mistakes. What exactly is ruined by having the option to go back and learn from those mistakes without spending several hours to restart a new game?

And as other posters have pointed out, saving and loading is an opt-in feature. Several people have objected on the grounds that they wouldn't be able to resist the siren song of "abusing" the save. I think that, in games, people do what they find most entertaining. If you find that you have more fun saving each turn and loading whenever anything goes wrong, I think maybe you should do that . And I don't look down on you if that's what you want to do. You're playing SP, you should be able to do what you want.

[Campy]

Kristoffer register me as a vote for a save game feature. Perhaps you could also have an ironman mode for those that don't want it and don't have the willpower to not use it if it is available. However, for newbie's and for trying different strategies at key points, it would make the game much more accessible. I vote for accessibility and fun over hardcore.

In the meantime, for those looking for something easier than doing it all manually, here is the batch file I use to keep three backup files:

copy "c:\games\dominions3\savebak\bak2\*.*" "c:\games\dominions3\savebak\bak3\"
copy "c:\games\dominions3\savebak\bak1\*.*" "c:\games\dominions3\savebak\bak2\"
copy "c:\games\dominions3\savedgames\Yomi\*.*" "c:\games\dominions3\savebak\bak1\"

I have this batch file in my Dom3 directory with a quicklink to it. I play in windows and then just have to click on the quicklink to backup to bak1 and simultaneously move the backup to bak2 and bak2 to bak3. Any of these three can be restored manually by copying the files back to your save file or by creating another batch program to do this for you. You of course will have to change the directory locations to where you have Dom3 saved and this will backup a game called Yomi. Each time I start a new game, I change that line to reflect the name of the new game. So to backup the tutorial, that line would have been:

copy "c:\games\dominions3\savedgames\Tutorial\*.*" "c:\games\dominions3\savebak\bak1\"

Hope some of you find this helpful. Would like to see better methods by others that may have spent more time on this than I did.

[Amos]

You could release a patch like addition. If people want to use Save they could download it, if they dont then they are not being tempted by Save in the game. That should satisfy most objectors.