Yomi - Oni Kings analysis. Developers please read

PDF · #1 October 14th, 2006, 10:14 AM

Maverni has great mages, but the only worthwhile troops are Eponi Knights and Carnute Nobles (the ones that get berserk).
The sacred warriors aren't worth a bless strategy and are awfully expensve (35 gp!!) for their stats.

At start you can't expand without significant losses before you can use Protection and BE. Then problem is that before you reach magic level 4 in several path you are clearly outclassed by nearly any other EA nations, particularly the non-human ones with big nasty troops such as Yomi, Agartha, Abysia or Niefelheim.

Compare costs and stats of a Boar Warrior vs a Agarthan Seal Guard : a SG costs roughly 2 BW (gold and res), it's laughable.

And you don't even get cool national summons !

Edit : and no sneaky troops neither !

Unwise · #2 October 14th, 2006, 11:32 AM

If you have time, be sure to put this up on the Wiki:

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Dominions_3:_The_Awakening

B0rsuk · #3 October 14th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Here's a hint from inexperienced Dominions player: you can mix various units in same squad. So you can mix both BIG and little units in same squad. This should more less average the size of your units, making them indirectly less vulnerable to area effect spells like Banish. Essentially, it should make your little units effectively occupy more space.

Not tested.

By the way: there should be a formation option allowing you to affect spacing/spread of units, so you can simply order little units to loose formation, sacrificing gang-up potential for improved AoE resistance. Would add yet another tactical layer to the game, I can't see how it could harm the game.

Agrajag · #4 October 14th, 2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

B0rsuk said:
I can't see how it could harm the game.

The effort involved in programming it, and the bugs that would stem from it. (I can already see one of the "ancient" dom2 bugs returning due to "loose formation".
And a game that is even more confusing for newbs.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, loose formations could be cool, but don't think that there's no potential adverse effects.

PDF · #5 October 14th, 2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

B0rsuk said:
Here's a hint from inexperienced Dominions player: you can mix various units in same squad. So you can mix both BIG and little units in same squad. This should more less average the size of your units, making them indirectly less vulnerable to area effect spells like Banish. Essentially, it should make your little units effectively occupy more space.

Not tested.

By the way: there should be a formation option allowing you to affect spacing/spread of units, so you can simply order little units to loose formation, sacrificing gang-up potential for improved AoE resistance. Would add yet another tactical layer to the game, I can't see how it could harm the game.

About mixing units : yes it's a good tactics, mix small & big, undead & non-undead, so small vulnerable undead couls be spread out and Banishments will be less effective.

About "loose" formations : many improvements (new formations, better "front-lining"..) were requested by players, but we didn't get anything... [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]

KissBlade · #6 October 14th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Then everyone would use loose formation.

Also as for Marveni expansion problems, you get slings and javelins early game to mix with your heavies. Use them.

KissBlade · #7 October 14th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Ashen Empire is way different than Yomi, the two should not be compared since they are of different age, Ashen Empire's UD are harder to banish, free and come in hordes. Not to mention offensive dominion and worthless provinces for people to conquer.

Nerfix · #8 October 14th, 2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

PDF said:
Maverni has great mages, but the only worthwhile troops are Eponi Knights and Carnute Nobles (the ones that get berserk).
The sacred warriors aren't worth a bless strategy and are awfully expensve (35 gp!!) for their stats.

At start you can't expand without significant losses before you can use Protection and BE. Then problem is that before you reach magic level 4 in several path you are clearly outclassed by nearly any other EA nations, particularly the non-human ones with big nasty troops such as Yomi, Agartha, Abysia or Niefelheim.

Compare costs and stats of a Boar Warrior vs a Agarthan Seal Guard : a SG costs roughly 2 BW (gold and res), it's laughable.

And you don't even get cool national summons !

Edit : and no sneaky troops neither !

Why are you even trying a bless strategy othern than E4 with Marverni? Not all nations can do well for it, and other nations have better choices for it.

The Carnute Nobles have far suckier stats than their Ambitate colleagues and their only saving grace is the Berzerk that fires only every now and then.

Perhaps your problems with significant losses have come from using inferior units (Carnutes) while far better choices are around (Ambitates)?

Yomi and Agartha are vulnerable to missiles (You get javelins, which are good, especially against Agartha), Agartha and Niefelheim are vulnerable to being ganged on. Admitedly Yomi can bring archers and some of the Niefels get the frost aura but there are no foolproof plans.

Another noteworthy thing is that Yomi and especially Niefelheim and Agartha have worse research capability than Marverni. This can be further boosted by taking Magic scale, and since you can't pull a good bless strat with Marverni, why bother putting too much magic for your pretender?

DominionsFan · #9 October 14th, 2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Nerfix said:
Another noteworthy thing is that Yomi and especially Niefelheim and Agartha have worse research capability than Marverni. This can be further boosted by taking Magic scale, and since you can't pull a good bless strat with Marverni, why bother putting too much magic for your pretender?

Eh yeah Niefel's biggest problem is the research [especially if you would like to get blood slaves], but nothing can be perfect.