High PD kinda useless.

[Forrest]

I think it is great at choke points. You shove it up to 40 and you have top level infantry. If you back them with a good archer squad they become hard to beat.

I had a 194 man force in a 40 PD provine and was hit by almost 400 troops. They lost 176 to my 1 man. Yes, I was using flaming arrows and had 100 longbowmen. All my infantry was set on guard commander and the enemy troops never made it to my troops. I was planning to make them pay for that choke point and never thought I could win.

Over 1000 troops and two Gods died trying to take that province. I held with minimal reinforcements and just a three or four spell casters. That 40 PD was the best spent money of the game.

[Graeme Dice]

Forrest said:
Over 1000 troops and two Gods died trying to take that province. I held with minimal reinforcements and just a three or four spell casters. That 40 PD was the best spent money of the game.

Except that it wasn't. There's little point in raising defense beyond the point where it costs more per additional troop than those troops would cost you to buy in the first place, and that breakpoint is around 20 for most nations. Beyond 20, you are throwing gold away on immobile troops that cost more than their equivalent mobile versions. It wasn't the province defense that allowed you to defeat your enemies, it was the flaming arrows from 100 longbows.

[Twan]

Immobile troops but without upkeep. Even at twice the price if you have to defend the province turn after turn and if you succeed a sufficient time it's not a bad investment.

[Forrest]

BUT..... those 40 troops died every time.

They slowed the advance to allow my archers multiple shots. If I had used my infantry then my archers would have wiped out my infantry in no time. That is the biggest draw back to archers especialy with flaming arrows.

That 40 PD saved me many hundreds of troops that I would have killed not counting the enemies efforts if they had not been weakened before they came hand to hand with my infantry. There were three kingdoms that made at least ten respectable efforts between them to take that province.

Mind you I did have to replace my infantry a few times as some attacks were very strong.

That is what a choke point is. If I had had the money I would have bought more PD. But the other two fronts were sucking me dry.

[Endoperez]

Also, even at 40 PD the price of raising the cost by one is just 40. For e.g. Man, they get 2 Militia, 1 Spearman, 1 Longbowman and 1 Tower Guard. That's less than their recruitment price.

MA Mictlan gets 3 Warriors and 1 Jaguar Warriors, and a Mictlan Priest that can bless the Jaguars!

EA Pangaea gets 3 satyrs and a Centaur and a Centaur Warrior at every two points. 41+42 or 83 gold for 6 satyrs, a Centaur Warrior and a Centaur doens't seem that bad to me.

LA Pangaea gets 1 Satys (of the Sneak variety) and 1,5 Satyr Hoplites, and additional Satyr and half a Centaur Cataphract. 83 gold for 3 Satyrs, 3 Satyr Hoplites and a Centaur Cataphract?

There are of course many nations for which 40 PD is high, but I'm not sure they are the majority. MA and LA Marignon both get Pikeneer, Halberdier and Crossbowman. 41 gp for 3 units is high.

LA Jotunheim gets 2 Huskarls and ½ a Jotun Javelinist. 83 gp for 4 humans and one giant is expensive. Other Jotunheim themes get few giants, also becomes "not worth it" faster.

But then again, Ermor has nice PD over all the nation's eras. 3 weaker troops and a Hastatus, and the better leader is a mage - that's still good at 41 gp.

[Graeme Dice]

Forrest said:
That is what a choke point is. If I had had the money I would have bought more PD. But the other two fronts were sucking me dry.

A choke point is something that your opponent flies his troops over and avoids, or sends a single thug to kill every single point of province defense, thus rendering it useless to you.

[Graeme Dice]

Twan said:
Immobile troops but without upkeep.

What about upkeep? If you got two units you for the 40th point of defense, for a cost of 40 gold, it takes 15 turns for that point of province defense to pay for itself. That's assuming, of course, that the province is ever attacked in the first place.

Even at twice the price if you have to defend the province turn after turn and if you succeed a sufficient time it's not a bad investment.

It's not as good an investment as buying real troops that you can use to attack for half the cost.

[Endoperez]

Graeme Dice said:

What about upkeep? If you got two units you for the 40th point of defense, for a cost of 40 gold, it takes 15 turns for that point of province defense to pay for itself. That's assuming, of course, that the province is ever attacked in the first place.

It's not as good an investment as buying real troops that you can use to attack for half the cost.

You are living in the past, man! NO nation in Dominions 3 gets ONLY two units for PD over 20! NO ONE! 3 is common, but here are those nations I found from the manual that had less than 3 units:

MA Ulm:
½ Infantry of Ulm, Crossbowman, Pikeneer

EA Helheim and EA Vanheim
Serf Warrior, ½ Huskarl, Huskarl (but those are Van Huskarls, with glamour etc)

EA and MA Jotunheim:
½ Jotun Militia, ½ Jotun Javelinist


Here are two nations that get quantity but not quality:

LA Ermor:
2 Longdead Velite, 2 Longdead Legionnaire, 2 Longdead Horsemen

All ages of monkey people:
2 Markata, 1½ Markata Archer (with range 20, very weak Small Boys), 1 Bandar Warrior

They could be said to be worse than 3 normal human units. However, LA Ermor doesn't buy high PDs often. Markata are priced at 5 gp, or half a light infatry. As such, monkey people get a slight less than 3 PD units.

These are the worst. Others are better. As I listed earlier, Man gets 2 Militia, 1 Spearman, 1 Longbowman and 1 tower Guard.

[Theonlystd]

The monkey poeples Pd is absolutely useless.

The meele units below 20 are useless and your archers will end up shooting those units more than the enm causing them to break half the time before they even meet the enm..

Just build lots of Forts and pump out those unarmored Bandars warriors or something

[NTJedi]

Graeme Dice said:
Beyond 20, you are throwing gold away on immobile troops that cost more than their equivalent mobile versions.

Well that depends on the situation. Mobile troops use food supplies, can pickup afflictions, die permanently and the more mobile troops purchased the greater their gold upkeep.
The units from province defense don't need food supplies, won't die permanently and have no gold upkeep.

Graeme Dice said:It wasn't the province defense that allowed you to defeat your enemies, it was the flaming arrows from 100 longbows.

I agree... the flaming arrows from 100 longbows definitely was the reason for holding the province.