High Bless rush strategy :(

Nerfix · #1 October 21st, 2006, 05:17 AM

Well EA Vanheim/Helheim are sickeningly powerful anyway. Glamour on nearly all units FTW!

On bless strats, they can be very, very powerful for some nations like Niefelheim, the Vanic nations, Mictlan (those OzeLOLs are in perfect synergy with the classic W9/F9 bless) and Marignon. Late Atlantis also seems to get nice bonii from taking a smitter of Air bless and then taking some other bless to lvl 9. Pity Arssartuts are capital only. And there are propably a lot more examples than I can even count.

Other nations don't benefit from it nowhere as much, MA Ulm being the prime example with no bless troops at all.

#2 October 21st, 2006, 05:32 AM

Isn't 9F,9W hideously expensive anyway? There's no God chasis with both water & fire, so your eco will most likely take a hit. IMO in Dom3 you cannot afford to sacrifice the economy as in Dom2, in this the new version plays pretty much like Dom:PPP did.

How about this to counter the 9F,9W vans:
-Abysia with a 9F bless: you are inmune to their fire attacks, but they are not to yours.
-Any SC god with high protection and some fire magic: take the field, cast fire resist, fire shield and either evocations or attack.
-Niefelheim with a Dom8 10e,4n,2f cyclops (dormant): 6ap can barely touch 25 prot, even with the fire vulnerability on the Jarls. Once the god awakens: forge fire resistance gear and stomp the little vanir.
-Any water nation: just stay in the water until ready, negating the rusher's advantage.
-Anybody else: go for direct damage spells (evocations) or mr based spells (tahumaturgy), alternatively field tramplers: trampling always deals 1 point of damage on Dom3 and cancels the mirror image, and it's not like elephants are that more expensive than vanir anyway. If possible, buf the tramplers with stuff like berserk or luck (body ethereal useless vs the magic attacks).

Nerfix · #3 October 21st, 2006, 06:02 AM

It is, and I've been mostly using just plain F9 or W9 for those "F9 W9" nations.

Actually, that's a lie. As Mictlan I used Imprisoned F9 D4 B4 Smoking Mirror. Perhaps not the best strategy, but those OzeLOLs, Jaguar Warriors etc etc etc sure tore through stuff, and I even had decent scales from what I remember.

I don't think I've ver used W9/F9, not even in Dom 2 because I'm so leery to take bad scales unless I'm playing AE Ermor.

Endoperez · #4 October 21st, 2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Wendigo_reloaded said:
How about this to counter the 9F,9W vans:
-Any SC god with high protection and some fire magic: take the field, cast fire resist, fire shield and either evocations or attack.

Many of those are also bless strategies, or limited to a certain nation... But this one is easy. Cyclops is immune to fire! Of course, Helheim can eventually forge a Vision's Foe, but that'll take too long for an early raid.

Earth Meld can be nice. I haven't yet gotten to test it properly, but it shuts the Vanir down, and lowers their defence. The manual states that Earth Grip shuts a creature down until it makes a STR + 2d6oe roll that exceeds 22. For even a 14-str Van, that's 8 or more. Unfortunately, it seems that it isn't an opposed roll with two 2d6oe, one on each side. In that case, the chance of a Van succeeding would be just few percent. Now, it's probably something like 50% chance.

Quietly · #5 October 21st, 2006, 06:08 AM

I play a very fun high bless strat with arcosphale, and I really disagree that bless strats are prohibitively cost-intensive.

Not only are there more points to go around this time, but I don't think it's excessive to say that initialy money spent on sacred troops can be better than twice as good as the same money spent on standard troops... most nations with high bless strats can work it so they can advance without losing units, thus gaining high experience.

Not only do you have to spent less on troops to get an equivalently powerful force, the real kicker is that sacred units/commanders are half upkeep... which is quite a sizable income boost, long-term, probably more an impact on income than order scales. (if you are playing a nation lucky enough to be able to dump its money almost totally into sacred unit/commanders)

My main problem with the pre-eminance of bless strats, is how poorly the starting pretender magic paths are distributed in relation to this. The difference in getting a 9 bless with a pretender with 3 in a category, and one with 1 (or even 0) is 105 design points (or 168 + the extra magic path cost), but magic paths seem thrown around, somewhat at random for nations. The blesses also vary widely in quality, and none of this is reflected in the cost of the pretender.... an innate magic path seems to cost in design points, about what it would cost to buy the first level of it... for example frost father costs 55 with 2 paths and a minor ability, compared to archmage with 35 and 1 path... the extra magic seems to cost around 20... however if you are going bless strat, the difference between 2 starting magic paths, and none, is more than 150 points, depending on initial magic path costs...

I wish some nations had better options for bless strats, but I also wish the cost of innate magic paths for pretenders was rebalanced...

Most pretenders suck horribly given the new design system... for example the god of war vs the cyclops... cyclops is cheaper for bless strats, and stronger to boot. SC's are much less a factor in this version, and blesses much more-so, but the cost system doesn't reflect this. I almost always play with an imprisoned god, and high bless/scales... gives me lots of money, and troops capable of taking down any early-game SC. If you buy an SC-capable pretender, not only do you have to pay for their inflated initial costs, but you also forgo the points for imprisoned/dormancy, as you'll likely want to quicken your expansion by using your pretender.

If I play imprisoned frost father with w9 e9 n6 jotunheim, no pretender you buy will be able to stand up to even a handful of blessed giants early game. btw drain and cold scales pretty much pay for even this overkill of a blessing (I forget but I think it needs sloth too, but jotun is gold intensive, so it hardly matters)... while sc's may scale up well with research and items, the army of giants scales up with income... and the thugs also scale up with items.

Nerfix · #6 October 21st, 2006, 06:26 AM

I quite like the Lord of War, but for Marverni only. Costs only 50, can easily get E4 bless for the Druids, can whack some early stuff to death in EA, especially if you hammer a Black Steel shield for him. With Marverni's magics it's possible to make a semi-SC out of him with Luck pendant and ring of regen + some other equipment. And you can get okay good scales with him, too.