Balance on small maps

[alexti]

Twan said:
But I'd like to see this choice as a new one. Something like :
- dormant 125pts
- dormant out of this plane (no bless) 150pts
- imprisoned 200pts
- imprisoned out of this plane (no bless) 250pts (or even 300 as no bless during 36+ turns is a real handicap)

25 points won't make a real difference, in worst case it will cost one scale step, in the best it will just be use for leftover points. But maybe it might work with something like 50-150 for dormant and 85-250 for imprisoned.

[Twan]

I've proposed it as a design option not changing too much the game, not as a way to force everybody (even on big maps) to take awake gods or gods without blesses for 36 turns, like it would be the case with normal imprisonment giving less than 100 points.

For the balance problem on duel maps, a simple game setting "no bless effects" (or "no level 9 bless effects"), or a player agreement not to take ***heim nations, are IMO the best answers. Changes affecting the balance in all kinds of games should IMO be done only if heavy blesses strategies (or ***heim nations) are proven overpowered on big maps too.

[WraithLord]

@alexti, I will try your modification and see how better Van will fair. Though on a small map an awake SC isn't negligible. For example to virtue is very strong against small groups of vanhere because their chances of actually striking at her are low.

Also I could take better scales for Arco as well. Giving up E4 for the virtue (not that useful until alteration research) and take high prod scales, what will allow me to produce myrmidons or chariots (trample!) instead of peltasts.

Again, this is just an example, I tend to agree to the usefulness of blessing, but I think it can be countered. But if so much evidence from experience says otherwise, well then I'm probably wrong

[alexti]

WraithLord said:
@alexti, I will try your modification and see how better Van will fair. Though on a small map an awake SC isn't negligible.

The difference from awake SC comes just a bit too late. You need to get some research done to make it really work vs blessed troops (for example, Alt-3 and Con-2). Easry research may the answer to the problem. I haven't experimented much yet with easy research.

[alexti]

Twan said:
I've proposed it as a design option not changing too much the game, not as a way to force everybody (even on big maps) to take awake gods or gods without blesses for 36 turns, like it would be the case with normal imprisonment giving less than 100 points.

With blessed strategy dormant/imprisoned is essentially free design points. I think that the idea of dormant/imprisoned was to allow more interesting strategies by permitting pretenders with various magic ability (for later game casting, acccess to magic paths, forging and summoning, or uber SC) at the cost of slower research and expansion in the beginning. In Dom2 rainbow pretenders were pretty weak - dormant/imprisoned are certainly make them more attractive. Bless strategies were already powerful in Dom2 and current dormant/imprisoned status just give them huge boost.

For example, I see no good reason not to play bless strategy with dormant pretender with many nations on any map (not necessarily uber F9W9, but one high bless or few minor blesses, depending on the nations and what magic paths need to be covered).

[WraithLord]

The more I think about this the more I come to like the idea of tying bless potency to the pretenders arrival. Doesn't necessarily have to be all or nothing (no bless until pretender arrives) rather a few steps of increasing bless potency reaching full potency upon arrival.