Suggestions for more informative messages

[Talleyrand]

This game is about battles. Battles are its focal point. If you've been playing Dominions for several years now then odds are you don't enjoy watching the battles play out because you've seen them so many times before, but for those of us who are new, we still enjoy the experience and would rather not have the outcome spoiled before we see it. That's why you will never see this suggestion realized, because you are sacrificing the enjoyment of others for your own gains. I think a compromised could be reached however so that clicking a message gives you more detailed information concerning whether the battle was won/lost, casualties for both sides, etc. The title could stay as it is, and those wanting information at a faster pace would still get that.

In regard to Stryke's post, I found his wording terribly put. One can have an opinion but one should also think about the values others place in a particular viewpoint and not totally disregard them. The original poster might not have considered the viewpoint of suspense when writing, because, being the original poster, nobody had responded yet. To me, it's just selfish and childish to say "those quoting suspense can shove it because *I* want my information given to me in a more timely fashion", which is what Stryke was saying. Well guess what buddy, the world does not revolve around you, and my enjoyment of this game has equal worth over yours when it comes to implementations that are unavoidable and affect both of us. Deal with it.

[Leif_-]

f you've been playing Dominions for several years now then odds are you don't enjoy watching the battles play out because you've seen them so many times before, but for those of us who are new, we still enjoy the experience and would rather not have the outcome spoiled before we see it.

I still enjoy watching the battles, but in larger games it very quickly becomes a lengthy process to watch every battle. When you're at that stage it would be really, really helpful to be able to see at a glance which battles require further attention and which you can ignore.

That's why you will never see this suggestion realized, because you are sacrificing the enjoyment of others for your own gains.

Well, now, that's surely certainly up to Illwinter and not us mere mortals, no? My wish for clear information clashes with your wish for suspense -- but the reverse is equally true, so you are sacrificing my enjoyment just as much as I am yours. Neither side has the moral high grounds here.

I will argue in favour of what I like, and you will argue in favour of what you like, and eventually the people who make the game will decide.

[Cainehill]

There's _no_ reason why there can't be more detailed information on the battles while maintaining a sense of suspense for those who want it.

Right now, you see "There was a battle in Cerne", and have a choice to read the summary of the battle, or view the battle.

Giving us _better_ information in that text summary wouldn't keep anyone from clicking "View Battle" to keep their sense of suspense, while allowing people to know which commanders & troops were killed.

[Graeme Dice]

Talleyrand said:
To me, it's just selfish and childish to say "those quoting suspense can shove it because *I* want my information given to me in a more timely fashion", which is what Stryke was saying.

If you want to watch every battle and want to maintain a sense of "suspense", then don't click on the battle summary. The rest of us want proper information for our strategy game.

Well guess what buddy, the world does not revolve around you, and my enjoyment of this game has equal worth over yours when it comes to implementations that are unavoidable and affect both of us. Deal with it.

You might want to lose the attitude, since you're the one arguing the (always) incorrect position that a strategy game should hide information from the players.

[thejeff]

I'd agree that battle summaries should have more information and something equivalent should exist for assassinations and the like.

I'd just prefer not to have the results shown on the message screen itself.
"Fred was the victim of an assassination attempt",
with "Fred defeated the assassin from Machaka" on the summary.

The information for each is available with a single click. Those who want suspense can watch the battles first.



I'd almost rather see the non-commander summons than the commander summons. I may not care about this turn's Vine Ogres, but I don't want to forget that I just summoned and Iron Dragon. The commanders will come up as I cycle through with 'n'. The troops could be overlooked.

Some better way to show site searches would be nice. Maybe only give messages for the successful ones?

[Talleyrand]

Oh, this is lovely. I've suddenly become the bad guy.

Leif, given that this is the way they've decided to design the game for every iteration of Dominions, I think my position is probably more concrete than yours in regard to Illwinter's thinking. I'm perfectly okay with the status quo, although I'm willing to compromise. It's you who is wanting to change things and is being exclusive of others.

Graeme Dice, I'm all for more information too. Sometimes even when I watch a battle I don't know the specifics of who got killed, etc. Can't you read? I think my position has been pretty clearly stated. I'm supporting a compromise between the two different groups: those who enjoy the suspense, and those wanting more information in a more timely manner. If clicking on a message and reading information is still too slow for you and Stryke then perhaps you need to be playing another game.

[Chazar]

I think people misunderstand each other here:

The original poster suggested that the first line of a battle message should indicate who has won and who as lost. I do not like that, since it would spoil the suspense by gleaming on the message list.

However, I think no one here objects to having more information in the battle summary obtained by clicking on the battle message inside that list.

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Besides I think that suspense is also a reason why the message window opens first, so you do not see the map and hence do not know immediately which provinces were won and which ones were lost unless you click on the battle summaries or dissmiss the message window...
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Geez, these boards have turned hostile...

[JaydedOne]

It -is- a bit of a pain to run around to other boards, trumpeting how mature and intelligent our board is, and then come back to find three or four different threads where the level of discourse has, shall we say, become sub-par for what we're used to around here.

The internet is not a great medium for conversation. Subtext gets lost. Misunderstandings are common, even moreso than in day-to-day conversation where it's frequent to say the least. While not everyone can or will get along, it's not too difficult to remain civil and agree to disagree without resorting to name-calling or unnecessary aggravation.

Relax. It's just a game. Discussing it should maintain some of that in perspective. If we didn't have each other, who would we talk to about Dominions?

[Stryke11]

I'm sorry for my contribution to the lowering of the discourse. I certainly didn't intend my first post to be anything but a vote for more info and my opinion. I didn't mean to demean anyone's position above and beyond disagreeing with it and I certainly don't feel my opinion is any more relevant (even less so compared to some of the folks on here with thousands of posts) than anyone else's. I wasn't thrilled by the personal attack on me in response to my post, but I understand how he took the intent of my post to be an attack on his beliefs (which it wasn't, and I'm sorry).

I agree with the new semi-consensus that more info when you click the headline would be great, for numerous types of messages, and one more I thought of, sorry if it was mentioned before, is to actually state what site was found when a site is found. For suspense purposes, if you don't want to click on the headline you can watch the battles first or do what you would like.

[Foodstamp]

If you can't take a little discourse, the internet is not the place to hang out! Give billions of nerds access to a medium that allows them to sling mud and throw a tantrum without getting punched in the face, and your gonna have millions upon millions of people QQ and angry.

Folks... Body language, spacing between individuals, eye contact or lack of, tone of voice, facing someone squarely... These things have more to do with conveying messages than the actual symbols (words) we use to tell a story or convey ideas.

On the internet we lose 90% of our ability to communicate because it is just written text. Try to think the best of what people are typing to you, because trust me, your going to run into someone eventually on the internet that is trying to get one over on ya!

That definetly did not happen in this thread.

As far as changing the messages, I still think it would be better as a player modded ability that we can toggle on and off.

Alot of people play this game like a database, wanting all the information presented in front of them so they can make their next move, just like chess. These people rule from a general's point of view.

Other people try to get absorbed into the game, they "care" about their prophet or that poor brave commander that fought so bravely all these years and now has several afflictions. These are the people I think suspenseful messaging would appeal too.