AP rounds fired by arty

loktarr · #1 October 27th, 2006, 01:28 PM

What seems to me very funny is the resistance of unarmored vehicles against this type of ammo.
Just try with two guns, one firing on APC and one on trucks...
The result is so odd...

serg3d · #2 October 27th, 2006, 01:51 PM

It seems to me AP cluster kill soft vehicles perfectly well. One hit and vehicle killed. On the other hand on the armor it making not-penetrating ding sometimes.

loktarr · #3 October 27th, 2006, 06:44 PM

Made some test (I love doing tests with SPMBT...):
the poor English were the target, firing unit was US paladin.
Target were grouped by 8 (vehicles or team), with two paladin firing at each target group. Target were immobile...
Here are the losses ratio[%], with (20)= roof anti-heat armor:
Challenger 2 (20) [50%]
Warrior II (5) [90%]
Spartan (1) [90%]
LandRover (0) [35%]
Medium Truck (0) [35%]
Infantery (-) [15%]

(I got these figures after 5 tests)
I may have the reason why there is a lowest ratio of destroyed unarmored vehicle: the ammo are AP and it seem that unarmored vehicle are easily destroyed by HE but not by
AP...
A test with MRL confirms it: for MRL cluster ammo are HE ammo and it's able to destroy easily unarmored vehicles...
Does anybody know more about how SP deals with unarmored vehicles hit by AP rounds?

PlasmaKrab · #4 October 28th, 2006, 04:34 AM

I didn't do any test on that, but I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't smothing related to the way soft vehicles are dealt damage (any damage).

Try firing against trucks or such with a tank or any heavy direct-fire weapon, and you'll have chances of seeing the truck losing crew members, but still technically running between two shots.

Just my 2c, I don't know if there is any relation with what you saw. If there is, you may want to check non-lethal damage done to the trucks, maybe several of them are technically "ready" but have suffered several damage points.

P.S. just another idea popping up: how about unit size? Tanks tend to have a high size ratio, and seeing how cluster rounds work, I'd find totally logical that 'smaller' units get less hits.

Mobhack · #5 October 28th, 2006, 06:13 AM

Soft vehicles take crew casualties. If they are not located by the firer at the time that will not be reported to him in your testing. They will tend to debuss any passengers when hit, and the supression levels will go up as well - they may be in retreat status. Again - your test may not show this if the potential targets are over a hill say. Only total kills will be shown in such a test (to test arty it is best to have a spotter close to and overlooking the impact zone)

Cheers
Andy

loktarr · #6 October 28th, 2006, 06:38 AM

In fact, I made my test with human control for both players, so I was able to know everything about casulties...
However, your answer gives a very clear explanation: theses ammo are not very effective against crew, and then it's slower to kill soft vehicles: if one wants to kill soft vehicles, I suppose one has to use the HE rounds.

whdonnelly · #7 October 29th, 2006, 12:27 AM

The only thing I can think of is a story an Abrams gunner told me. At long range a dark smudge on the horizon can be a tank, a truck, or a camel, so they have engaged some questionable targets more than once. Once they were engaging a target that turned out to be a land rover. After 4 hits which tore away the canvas, the windshield, and various fenders, the land rover still drove. Maybe the shock of a hit isn't absorbed by the whole vehicle, unlike an AFV. Following this reasoning, softer targets would have less critical hits than an AFV.
Would this apply to the arty rounds? Not my area of expertise, but it seems logical.
Will