The neo-standard thread- Standardising additional hull sizes.

[Andrés]

I haven't updated that mod since before Last time this topic was discussed. I think I was about to change the name of old deathstar pics.
I'll change that when I get to work again in that mod and also make it compatible with seiv ver 1.49, and complete things I never got to add.

I think that to make modders use the new "standard pic names", it will be more important to create compatible shipsets than to create one or two compatible mods.
If a few sample shipsets are available, I think that other shipset artists will start copying that, making pictures for all those extra sizes. And modders will find that pictures are already there and use them in their mods.
It looks like your Viking shipset is going to be the first example.
I will make all images for the shipsets I have in progress and then my priority should be to "upgrade" all of my shipsets to the "new standard", and not edit that obsolete mod.
If we can convince other people such as Atrocities and John Beech to upgrade their shipsets and promote this standard in their websites, then most of the shipset makers will follow.
suicide_junkie's proposed program sounds cool.

Andrés

[Andrés]

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No way! That would be ridiculous. I was just pointing out that if Malfador isn't going to be fastidious about ship names, why should we? I agree that we should use the shipadjective format (ie transportlarge) rather than adjectiveship (lightcruiser) because it Groups files together nicely when sorted alphabetically. Other than that, I'd rather be a little creative with the names rather than tie ourselves to conventions which may not suit in the future.

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I agree, do not change pic names such as lightcruiser to keep compatibility with non modded game without the need of redundant copies.

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Yeah, I think a range of giant death stars would be good. 3 is enough though... anyone modding more than that probably needs to spend more time away from their computer.

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Remember my ultimate vehicle size mod?
I was planning to revamp it once we agree with this standard.

Ok these are the names and sizes I propose:
Ship Name – Pic Name – Description

Normal ships:
Scout – Scout – smaller than Escort
Baseship – Baseship – let’s standardize this pic name for baseship size, some shipsets (Atrocities’) use bs as pic name
Small PlanetCraft? Small Planetoid? Small Worldship? Small WorldCraft? – Larger than Baseship
Medium PlanetCraft? Medium Planetoid? Medium Worldship? Medium WorldCraft? – Larger than previous one
Large PlanetCraft? Large Planetoid? Large Worldship? Large WorldCraft? – Larger than previous one

Ships such as Corvette, Heavy Destroyer, etc are not necessary. I agree the names sound cool, but there’s not an important gap between ship sizes. Maybe there is a gap between the Dreadnought and the baseship. What about a Monitor, or Super Dreadnought?

Troops:
Infantry – Infantry – IMHO InfantryTroop is unnecessary redundant, there are not things such as InfantryFighters. Looks like SJ now agrees that smallest troops should be infantry and not drop pods?

Fighters:
The standard are Small, Medium, and Large changing them or adding others such as Light and Heavy will only generate confusion.
Sizes I propose are:
Tiny Fighter – FighterTiny – Smaller than small fighter
Massive Fighter – FighterMassive or FighterBomber – Larger and maybe slower than Large Fighter

Specialized Ships:
Large Colony ship – bigger than standard one

And not sure about this one.
Special Ship – ShipSpecial – A ship with special abilities, such as resource ship, resource miner, stellar manipulation barge, etc. Maybe a small, medium and large ones.

[Suicide Junkie]

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Looks like SJ now agrees that smallest troops should be infantry and not drop pods?

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I still use a troop size called "drop pod", and I don't plan on changing it. (The vehicle is a "drop pod", and the components of the drop pod include infantry. The larger troops are tanks & stuff, so they can probably survive a surface landing without being inside something else)
I figure that theres no point in having a picture of the pods; we want to see the units in action, so I will use a picture of the race when this standard is nailed down.
I agree that we need an Infantry unit image, and it only makes sense to call it troopInfantry.

By default, the racial pictures
"raceX_pop_portrait" would be perfect for the "raceX_mini_troopInfantry", and
"raceX_race_portrait" would be great for the "raceX_portrait_troopInfantry" images.

[dogscoff]

OK, It think we're making real progress=-)

IMHO, the important ships to discuss are the ones already in use:

Infantry (Storm troopers, bio fanatics. Maybe or maybe not drop pods.).
I think the standard name for this image should be "TroopInfantry"

Big Round Grey Things (death star/ battlemoon).
I think the standard name for these images should be "PlanetoidSmall/ Medium/ Large)

Mining Ships & Stations (S_J's nomad resource hulls)
I think the standard names for these images should be "Prospector" and "MiningStation")

Fighters. S_J says he doesn't need extra fighter images after all, so I think just "FighterBomber" for Andres' TIE bomber.

Does this cover all your extra hull sizes? Would you guys be happy to make the above changes to your vehiclesize.txt files? Should we vote on "planetoid" vs "worldship" or "prospector" vs something else?

Like I say, these are the important ones since they are the ones actually relevent to your mods. I think we should agree on these before we discuss tiny fighters, stellar manip barges, corvettes, troop transports and whatever else. They can be added afterwards - the standard can grow and evolve to accomodate them as necessary.

Oh, and thanks for your support with all this, guys=-)

BTW, I still haven't had any response from other modders=-( but it is the weekend. Good news about Devnullmod though=-)

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SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

[Suicide Junkie]

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Mining Ships & Stations (S_J's nomad resource hulls)
I think the standard names for these images should be "Prospector" and "MiningStation")

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I don't have resource hulls anymore; I replaced that with 1% maintenance, plus the minimum production, plus trade/thefts.

As for the prospector/miningstation, I'm thinking we want to get across the idea of "big ship with scoops/loading bays"

- Some sort of Scavenger, Collector type idea.

[Andrés]

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Infantry (Storm troopers, bio fanatics. Maybe or maybe not drop pods.).
I think the standard name for this image should be "TroopInfantry"

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I repeat that IMHO InfantryTroop is unnecessary redundant, just Infantry is enough. But if you insist in that pic name, I’ll follow.

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Fighters. S_J says he doesn't need extra fighter images after all, so I think just "FighterBomber" for Andres' TIE bomber.

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Neither I do. I made three fighter sizes TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber and TIE Advanced using the Small, Large and Medium fighter pictures (they match the fighters I used in the SW-Emp1 shipset). In my mod they come with the SW racial advantage, and are smaller but this similar performance compared with standard fighters which they make obsolete and not worth researching.
Fighters I think could be useful to modders are smaller and bigger than standard, a FighterTiny and a FighterMassive.

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Does this cover all your extra hull sizes?

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It exceeds my extra sizes, but that’s not important. My mod adds very few sizes, and its not a great mod by itself.
What we need to do is to make enough ships pictures for modders to use. We can even create a simple mod using all the “standard” pictures.

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Would you guys be happy to make the above changes to your vehiclesize.txt files?

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I said that I haven’t updated that mod in a loooong time, but yes, next time I update it I’ll make it compatible.
But as I said in my previous post, it will be more important to create compatible shipsets.

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Should we vote on "planetoid" vs "worldship" or "prospector" vs something else?

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I would vote for “PlanetCraft” or “WorldShip”, something that makes clear that it is a ver big sized ship and not a stellar body.

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As for the prospector/miningstation, I'm thinking we want to get across the idea of "big ship with scoops/loading bays"

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What about a “SpecialShip” and “SpecialStation” that could have different functions in different mods.

This is the VehicleSize file from Hadrian Aventine's Ultimate Mod (about to be updated), in case you want to take a look at the extra sizes there.

[Suicide Junkie]

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What about a “SpecialShip” and “SpecialStation” that could have different functions in different mods.

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The problem with that is "special" could mean so very many things.
The filename should describe the picture, but not limit the use too much.
Its all about balance.
"Big scoopy ship"
"Little scoopy ship"
"Civilian Craft"
"Superbig round ship"
"People with guns"
I think that's about the level of detail we need to specify with this image name standard.

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"Worldship" sounds good.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 18 November 2001).]