Better AI Idea - modders please read

[Mark Walton]

Even better than telling us the rules for state change, give us control!

Add this to my wish list:

Let us tell the AI under what circumstances to change state, and which state to change to. Let us create our own states and set any variables / actions this state requires. We could write some real, killer AIs.

I would like to be able to create my own list of variables too, and give the AI rules for reading/setting them. So they AI could count total losses to minefields, or number of colonizable worlds, or estimates on enemy strengths in systems...

[DirectorTsaarx]

I've seen the AI (specifically the Xi'Chung and Ukra'Tal) do very well with minesweepers. I lost a couple of systems to each race because I couldn't replenish the minefields fast enough. Both races had dreadnought-sized (!) minesweepers that worked in pairs (I think I saw a fleet of 3 minesweepers once), and each dreadnought was capable of clearing an entire minefield by itself. Of course, they both lost a few fleets to various minefields before sweeping them, but that happens to humans sometimes too.

It is unfortunate that the minesweepers don't get placed in fleets with attack ships, but at least that way there's a chance that the attack fleet won't be destroyed by the Last few mines if the minesweepers aren't sufficient.

[Atraikius]

I know I have seen the AI use actual fleets of minesweepers (happened to check on one of mine), and have seen it multiple times. I have caught the orks with a fleet of 5 dreadnaught minesweepers (5 minesweeper 4 components each) twice.

I agree on the giving us the ability of controlling AI states, that was one of my wish lists items in a previous thread. Need more than just controlling when the AI changes states, the state also seems to effect which ministers have priority over different functions, and what functions they will use; I want to be able to set those too.

[God Emperor]

I agree with Master Belisarius. The AI cannot/doesnt make use of specialised components effectively so its best to design their ships as "Swiss Army Knives". All of my races Attack ships include at least one minesweeper component whilst Minesweeper ships include limited weapons.
If you play strategic combat, the Swiss Army Knife ships tend to perform better too...

[Jourin]

This past weekend I ran a series of 5 test games with 10 AIs (I sometimes took control). I changed the minimum number of mine sweepers to 6 in all the AI scripts. Prior to an attack, the AI built 6 minesweepers and sent them in as a group. The six minesweepers cleared the 100 mines in usually in the first pass (depending on mine level - in one case the did not, but cleared the majority that the fleet, although depleted still made it through the minefield) and then sent in the 40 ship fleet. I could no longer depend on minefields for the AI to kill itself on. I recommend that all the modpack AI mod makers seriously consider upgrading the minimum number of minesweepers to 6. Conduct your own tests but please consider.

Other tests:
I added a separate queue for attack, but left the prepare to attack queue the same. Did not achieve the expected results. I could not find a clear distinction between attack and prepare to attack by the AI. Recommend keeping the current setup on one queue for both.

I added a separate queue for defend (long term), and in all but one case achieved the expected results. The AI consistently went into this state when it was loosing. I used this queue to have the AI build lots of mines, satellites, fighters, weapon platforms, bases, and then ships. The AI put up such a strong defense that it actually stopped me. Usually once I get the AI on the ropes, it folds, but it actually stopped me. The one case that it didn't work occurred when an Ork ship was transported by an event into Norak space and moved into the Norak home system. The Norak's went into the defend long term state for over 50 turns. Maybe since the Norak's could not attack because of no direct contact, the AI put them into the defend long term state, or maybe since the home system was "attacked", the AI went into the defend long term state. So I added a colonizer back into this queue but with a minimum of 1. The AI needs to build at least 1 colonizer so it doesn't kill itself like the Norak's by not expanding, but does not need to constantly waste resources by building colonizers that immediately get destroyed when actually in a real defensive situation. I replayed the Norak game and with the addition of the colonizer, the Norak's changed states and moved out of defend long term much sooner then 50 turns. So it played differently the second time around.

Recommend that the modpack AI makers seriously consider and test a separate queue for defend long term.

I also made a separate research queue for defend long term, so it would research defensive techs. Maybe could expand to include separate techs for infrastructure, etc. Might also help the AI.

Going to take a break from SEIV since it is the only game I have played for a year and try some Civ III, but since I still love SEIV I will be back.

[Jourin]

This past weekend I ran a series of 5 test games with 10 AIs (I sometimes took control). I changed the minimum number of mine sweepers to 6 in all the AI scripts. Prior to an attack, the AI built 6 minesweepers and sent them in as a group. The six minesweepers cleared the 100 mines in usually in the first pass (depending on mine level - in one case the did not, but cleared the majority that the fleet, although depleted still made it through the minefield) and then sent in the 40 ship fleet. I could no longer depend on minefields for the AI to kill itself on. I recommend that all the modpack AI mod makers seriously consider upgrading the minimum number of minesweepers to 6. Conduct your own tests but please consider.

Other tests:
I added a separate queue for attack, but left the prepare to attack queue the same. Did not achieve the expected results. I could not find a clear distinction between attack and prepare to attack by the AI. Recommend keeping the current setup on one queue for both.

I added a separate queue for defend (long term), and in all but one case achieved the expected results. The AI consistently went into this state when it was loosing. I used this queue to have the AI build lots of mines, satellites, fighters, weapon platforms, bases, and then ships. The AI put up such a strong defense that it actually stopped me. Usually once I get the AI on the ropes, it folds, but it actually stopped me. The one case that it didn't work occurred when an Ork ship was transported by an event into Norak space and moved into the Norak home system. The Norak's went into the defend long term state for over 50 turns. Maybe since the Norak's could not attack because of no direct contact, the AI put them into the defend long term state, or maybe since the home system was "attacked", the AI went into the defend long term state. So I added a colonizer back into this queue but with a minimum of 1. The AI needs to build at least 1 colonizer so it doesn't kill itself like the Norak's by not expanding, but does not need to constantly waste resources by building colonizers that immediately get destroyed when actually in a real defensive situation. I replayed the Norak game and with the addition of the colonizer, the Norak's changed states and moved out of defend long term much sooner then 50 turns. So it played differently the second time around.

Recommend that the modpack AI makers seriously consider and test a separate queue for defend long term.

I also made a separate research queue for defend long term, so it would research defensive techs. Maybe could expand to include separate techs for infrastructure, etc. Might also help the AI.

Going to take a break from SEIV since it is the only game I have played for a year and try some Civ III, but since I still love SEIV I will be back.

[Puke]

Jourin, thats is an awesome development! depending on the design of minesweeper, you can probably get away with less than 6. BCs with MS4s should probably do fine with about 3, so that might be hard to balance between the early and midgame.

I really like the long term defense idea. can you post an example of the edited files for us to check out?

Thanks!