The problem of low hit points on humans

[Patriot]

I understand the frustration, but in the end, I believe that commanders are valued because of their leadership and should not be cradeled like a baby. Like a common soldier, they are replacable. Sub-commanders are placed in armies in case, your prophetized rare-item ridden leader of God gets obliterated with one spell.

Maybe it's a mistake to nurture a low hp commander as a SC. I've never played a game where I rely on one powerful soldier, so I'm pretty stupid on that subject. I went off topic.

I think that humans are average and thus 10hp is average. Raise human commander hp to 20 and Niefel Jarls and Basalt King should have hps in the realm of Pretender Gods. Personally, I wouldn't care if the game was patched to raise human hp though. Still I'm leaning to thinking that it's fine the way it is.

[Ighalli]

I think humans surviving a sword through the gut or being enveloped in a blast of fire is against the flavor of dominions. Personally, I like the fact that commander HP are done the same as soldier HP; it makes for a more gritty ("realistic" maybe?) fantasy world. If you don't like it, at least you can write a mod and increase the HP of the commanders you use.

[alexti]

I feel that human commander's HP are just fine. It seems normal that a single lightning bolt, or a hit by a giant, or even a well aimed arrow can kill them. They're pretty cheap and easily replaceable (it's good idea to have few spare commanders in your army). They're commanders because of their leadership skills, not because they're superhumans. Though they usually pretty good fighters and can often defeat 2 regular human soldiers.

And even Niefel Jarl can be wiped out in pretty much one shot. Ok, paralyze may not kill him outright, but routing work by a few soliders will finish him in that state.

I don't think it's a good idea to put too much equipment on those humans - they die quite easily. I'd usually put some cheap shield and armor so that they can survive stray arrows and, appropriate cheap magic booster when necessary. Of course, the end game is another story and you have to equip all your battlemages (armor and at least fire and cold resistance).

[Endoperez]

Human mages would still be recruited over human commanders, independent commanders would still be the most often recruited type to lead units, and only human sacred/otherwise elite melee commanders would really benefit from this (they MIGHT have a minor use with the change)... except that the best of the best humans already have increased hitpoints. Paladin - 15 hp. Black Lord - 17 hp. Lord Warden of Man - 20 hp (although that's from a magical enchantment, LW of Chelms has "only" 14 hp.)
Some of that seems to be 2 bonus hp that heavy cavalry seem to have. Daimyos of Jomon only have 11 hp, but lesser Hatamotos have 12, so I quess Daimyos are meant to have 13. Hoplite Commander has 13 hp, Agema Commander has 15 hp, etc.

[B0rsuk]

I think the thread starter's frustration comes from three reasons:

- he insists on entering the SC game
- he insists on making SC's out of humans
- he insists on playing a nation that doesn't fit his playing style. I could suggest playing Ulm, it has more HPs by default. By the way, I think sending Pathos to front line is misusing him - he has a strong Standard ability for a reason. Send the minotaur hero into battle, he can't really do anything else. 20+ hp and 16 base protection seems what you're looking for.

Personally I'm fine with the way humans are in Dominions. Dominions is the first game I see in a long time that doesn't pretend humans are demigods. Players are used to games where it takes like 20 sword hits to kill a human. (Warcraft3 ....)
Please notice that commanders in Dominions are called commanders, and not heroes. This is because, well, they're not heroes. You have to work hard to become a hero. Dominions has a mechanic for this called Heroic Ability.

[Hullu]

Which reminds me of...

Would be nice if the heroic abilities made sense. It's annoying to get valor or quickness for a mage. When your SC-non-caster gets some semi-useless reinvigoration(not useless, but I'd prefer quickness or somesuch):/

In my last singleplayer game I actually waited to get a melee guy with quickness before I made anyone a prophet. Combined with imprisoned pretender I played my first 30 turns without propher or a pretender

[Forrest]

Hit points are not jack.

In my last game a 300+ Hp pretender jumped into a little slot between my blessed Wardens and my H inf all backed by longbows with aim. The fact it took 3 rounds to kill him is a tribute to the +95 hp for domain that he had.

This is a army game. Commanders die like flies no matter how many hit points. If he survives a few front line conflicts he'll be damaged or marked.

[Twan]

I think a difference should be made between normal humans and surhuman heroes. It's a shame to see most warrior type heroes useless except as normal leaders, they need more than 20hp to have an use as heroic warriors (I would even say 25-30 hp + recup or regen, as hp here represent their extra capacity to avoid any kind of dammage -defense doesn't work as "heroes points" as it's useless against missiles/spells, luck is an option but too random and easy to have with gear, 50% all resist is another-) . Anything that have high chances to be one-shoted by a fireball or a level 3 summon is not a med-fan heroic warrior. Anyway, normal, recruitable, humans are not supposed to be exceptionnal warriors, and I find normal to see them having less than 20 hp.