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  #1  
Old December 8th, 2006, 09:45 PM

FrankTrollman FrankTrollman is offline
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Default Re: Begun it has

We don't believe your lies.

The Great Catsby has Spoken

Anyway, a good example of how to get around the Murdering Winter problem is Ulm's army - it is composed of Cold Resistant Barbarians (their cold resistance is pretty dissappointing compared to Murdering Winter, but still), and Constructs. Clockwork Horrors don't get affected by cold at all, so they give a lot of resistance to the army against that attack. (a number of constructs get hit instead of regular troops and those hits are negated in full). For 50 gems, it just isn't worth hitting an army of Ulm with that.

-Frank
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  #2  
Old December 8th, 2006, 10:06 PM
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FAJ FAJ is offline
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Default Re: Begun it has

Eh, it was my first game. I would rather die and learn something than waste my time playing in a game where I didn't have a chance of being the winner.

To be honest, I think you, Frank, are too experianced to be playing in a newbie game. As if to make matters worse, you boast everytime you beat a nation who not only is smaller than you, but also less experianced.

I don't know if your attempting to act in character or anything, but acting like a jerk, even in character, doesn't enrich the game for anyone, so I don't know why you do it.

I will thank you again, though, for the lesson in the game. It taught me more about the game than the manual ever could.
But I still don't understand why you think I broke an alliance or anything. I was under the impression that alliances had to be agreed on and in dominions people are considered enemies untill proven friends? You sure didn't charge me for the artifacts at your posted ally prices.

As for turning myself over to AI, I didn't realize it was bad form to do that. Tien Chi will have 90% of my lands within 5 turns anyways, so the situation isn't one that a replacment player would have fun with. Ill stick around and see if I can manage to win a single battle.
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  #3  
Old December 8th, 2006, 11:04 PM

AdrianP AdrianP is offline
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Default Re: Begun it has

Quote:
FrankTrollman said:
We don't believe your lies.

The Great Catsby has Spoken



-Frank
Ha Ha, Her Most Magnificent knows the truth is wasted on such a decadent people.

----

I am really surprised that everybody has such low research. I know this a newbie game, but I thought everyone would be higher.
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  #4  
Old December 9th, 2006, 12:07 AM

FrankTrollman FrankTrollman is offline
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Quote:
To be honest, I think you, Frank, are too experianced to be playing in a newbie game.
I'm not sure how that could be possible. This is my first multiplayer game of Dominions 3. In fact, I've never completed a game of Dominions 3, I've never seen the message that says that you have won or lost. And it's my first game as Tien Chi: Spring and Autumn. Actually, it's my first game as any era of Tien Chi, but I gather that the others aren't that similar anyways.

Quote:
I don't know if your attempting to act in character or anything, but acting like a jerk, even in character, doesn't enrich the game for anyone, so I don't know why you do it.
There's a couple reasons. The most important is that Tien Chi is based on early China. Pre-Chin China even. So I've decided to put into practice the diplomatic decisions of Emperor Wu:

"Never let a barbarian know he has something you want. Value nothing that comes from far away."

That became Imperial Doctrine under the first Emperor of Zhou, and since we're during the Spring and Autumn time period, that seems immensely appropriate. It's a studiedly political stance. By refusing to acknowledge that other empires have anything you fear or value, the Empire of China was able to inflate the appeal of their own goods in distant lands.

But there are also occassional deliberate choices made about what boasts and threats we send out. For example, the infamous "Witch Kings are not Gods!" speech was made to hide the fact that at that moment my third army was out of position - there was literally nothing standing between his raiding force and the deeper bowels of my empire. He could have marched virtually unopposed all the way to Abysia, burning as he went. So we made a speech about how there was no avenue of escape in order to bluff Sauromatia into sending his troops to attempt to force a path back to his home supply lines - a path which was thouroughly closed.

Similarly, when we announced that we were going to invade Arcocephale in a few turns if they didn't negotiate we were pretty sure that they were just going to attack instead - and we timed the release of that demand with the movement of a group of troops into the border province knowing that we could move more troops into that area than Arcocephale already had in the adjacent province. The result was a stomping.

So yeah, there are some calculated bluffs thrown in there to attempt to draw opponents into "proving us wrong" in ways that aren't actually to their advantage. But mostly it's a pastiche of historical Chinese diplomatic posturing. Even the trade in items for gems mimics the Chinese demand for payment only in gold. (But in Dominions the most valuable currency is gems, not gold, so we use that instead).

Quote:
But I still don't understand why you think I broke an alliance or anything.
You didn't. Ulm did, and they'll pay! Grrr.

Helheim honestly did announce their invasion of my lands. Arcocephale, Sauromatia, Yomi, Abysia, and Ulm did not. Abysia and I eventually made a peace settlement of sorts and that particular war ended with no hard feelings and relatively few casualties.

Tien Chi would be completely happy with accepting an alliance with a "barbarian" nation and attempting to declare a co-victory. Honestly, I can't imagine wanting to play this game to the bitter bitter end. I think I prefer the Victory Point model being used in the other games I'm playing. At least that has a fixed ending in sight. Unfortunately, Ulm decided to "go out with a bang" and attempt to burn my capitol to the ground.

-Frank

And here's the in-character bit to Ulm:

You will find now that you have passed our wall that it will be difficult for you to make progress, harder still to take your spoils back with you. As you approach the heart of our nation, know also that you approach our labs and and our forges. Even now our armies reposition to hold you fast.

These are the lands where our magics rule, and you will tire quickly. Every turn we can distract you, delay you, misdirect you is another turn that we move closer to defeating you. Do you think that you can stand against the armies that destroyed Yomi's forces? If you turn back now, I will spare you their wrath.

The Great Catsby has Spoken
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  #5  
Old December 9th, 2006, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: Begun it has

I think what happened in this game is we had alot of people new to multiplayer dominions put against veterans of dominions 1 and 2 multiplayer that used the excuse "This is my first game of dominions 3" to beat up on some people totally new to the series.

I don't think this particular game was meant for veterans of other dominions games that were new to dominions 3, or the game would have been open to anyone seeing how it just came out a few weeks before the nooby game started.
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  #6  
Old December 9th, 2006, 08:14 AM

Shovah32 Shovah32 is offline
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Default Re: Begun it has

I never claimed i was new, i simply admitted that i suck and was allowed in.

And as for me and tien chi having a war, it was more like 2 assasins killing 2 mages then making peace...
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  #7  
Old December 9th, 2006, 03:18 PM

Ironhawk Ironhawk is offline
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Default Re: Begun it has

About VPs: I explicitly opted not to use VPs in this game so that you guys would have to play to the bitter end. If you'd ended too early then you never would have gotten experience with spells (and the tactics needed to defeat them) like Murdering Winter or Ghost Riders. Anyway, in games w/o VPs, what normally happens is that one nation comes pretty clearly out on top. Then you can discuss with all the players whether you think your position is unchallengable, particularly with the #2 player. If there is agreement, you just declare someone the winner.

As for Frank or Shovah being too experienced for this game: It's possible that they were. There is no system for ranking dominions players or evaluating thier experience. I had to make a judgement call and I made it, so that's that. In the end what matters is the experience you gained as a result of this game, which i think was pretty huge for everyone.
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  #8  
Old December 10th, 2006, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Begun it has

Well being thrown up against better players taught me alot. The veteran players that snuck into this game had a firm grasp of magic usage that I hope to learn from. In my future games I plan to use some of the strategies I saw implemented in this game or I heard talked about on this thread.

So while the first nooby game of Dominions 3 may be won by a veteran player, I think that if all the true noobies take something from the game, we end up coming out ahead.
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