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  #1  
Old December 10th, 2006, 01:50 PM
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FAJ FAJ is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing

What could Yomi have done to stop you from casting murdering winter? What troops does Yomi even have access to to combat your forces? What could I have done?

I didn't have any good independants, or if i did the province had 12-20 reasources. My castles can only produce chaff troops of hp9 and low prot, or archers of the same quality. That, or incredibly overpriced Oni, which have 6 or less protection anyways. We get no sacred troops; our battle mages are either 500 gold a piece, or the Hannyas which burn and fatigue our own troops!

I understand WHY my armies were easily beaten, just not HOW it could have been avoided. Especially given my ignorence of the magic system and available spells.
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  #2  
Old December 10th, 2006, 03:05 PM

FrankTrollman FrankTrollman is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing

Quote:

What could Yomi have done to stop you from casting murdering winter?
One of your Forces was 1/3rd Undead, that's all Cold Immune. You also have access to a lot of Earth power that could have thrown up some Crushers, Clockwork Horrors, or Mechanical Men. Murdering Winter does a small amount of Armor Negating cold damage (7+ Cold Scale according to the manual) to a percentage of every troop in the province. It costs fifty gems, so it's not a good deal unless it's going to kill a lot of units. Now in this case, you had a large army in a cold province that was almost all Bakemono - that's a perfect target for that.

But if you'd split things up, so that you had three armies instead of 2, so that each army had a mixture of Onis, Bakemono, Undead, and Constructs, then there wouldn't have been a good target for Murdering Winter.

That's ultimately what I meant by keeping it a secret so that you wouldn't have a chance to repossition your units. A mixed force or a divided army would have taken pretty miniscule losses against that spell for the cost (remembering that every Murdering Winter is essentially a Troll Court that I don't have).


Quote:

My castles can only produce chaff troops of hp9 and low prot, or archers of the same quality.
Don't put your faith in archers alone. Your castles also produce Oni. In fact, your nation is called "land of the oni" for a reason. The Ao Oni are immune to murdering Winter, but even the Aka Oni has 14 hit points - that means that he'll live through even the nastiest cold snap.

Of course, the Bakemono Archers themselves only cost 8 gold. An army of 300 of them really is only 2400 gold worth of troops. That's less than 20 Wind Riders, and you'd already heard that the armies of Tien Chi went through that with only horrendous losses. To a very real degree, you get what you pay for. And Bakemono Archers even in large numbers are not a large force by the standards of the day (compare: Ulm is throwing around an army that had 250 Ulmish Archers and 243 cold immune constructs - that's an army).

In short, you weren't attacking with an army the caliber of the armies that were marching around on your border. It wasn't science fiction enough, it wasn't diverse enough, and it wasn't nearly large enough for the amount of troops it was looking at.

Finally,
Quote:
the Hannyas which burn and fatigue our own troops!
I actually think that Yomi is all about the Hannyas. The heat aura is an advantage if you turn to magical troops or segregate them from the rest of the army. As mages, they don't have to stand in the middle of a blob of troops, they can be way in the back, or over on the side. Equipped with a Skull Staff they can mad spam skeletons and equipped with a Flaming Skull or Helmet they can Flaming Arrows the army or rain Falling Fires on the enemy. At 40% the cost of the Dai Oni and producable from any Castle, my initial analysis is that they are the soul of the Yomi army (but I don't really know for sure because I didn't even open up the Yomi position to look at what it does until you invaded me).


Quote:

I understand WHY my armies were easily beaten, just not HOW it could have been avoided.
Part of it is jusging where and when the major battles are going to take place. When you first started screaming across the border, you could probably take any province with 100 guys and some sharpened sticks, so really you could just do that. Once you believe that a major battle is going to take place, your choices are to either:
  • Avoid the battle altogether and simply continue to take territory with small armies while ceding provinces to large enemy forces.
    or
  • Consolidate all of your forces into the province you believe a major battle is going to take place.

Indeed, since you controlled the planes section between the two major battle fields, it was entirely within your means to have moved some or all of one army group into the other province - forcing my forces to fight the entire force. The divide and raid plan relies entirely on the fact that that is an available strategy. Since one team could combine arms, the defender (that's still me by the way) has to alot for that fact and cannot afford to split forces to fight small battles.

Movement occurs after the magic phase, so spells like Mind Hunt and Murdering Winter apply only to the troops that aren't moving into that province.

-Frank
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Old December 10th, 2006, 03:46 PM

Saarud Saarud is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing

Warnings... loooong post

Finally I Agartha are dead. Maverni and Atlantis quite effiecently cut me down and eliminated all my dominion. My 25 or something priests had no chance to preach to the people about me as both Maverni and Atlantis outnumbered my priests. My last action as I knew this would be my last turn were to breake the siege and try to do as much damage as possible to Maverni. I was owned on the battlefield as Maverni used much better tactic than me but atleast I took some 118 or something with me to my grave.

I started the game in Aklavik Pass very near the northwestern corner. I thought that was good but quickly I had to realize that it was very crowdy up there. I ran into Maverni and Yomi south of me early and I immediatly started to negotiate with Maverni about an alliance against Yomi. At first I thought the negotiation was going good but after a few months the messenger from Maverni was not going to Agartha anymore.

Meanwhile I was attacking hard eastwards and I reached Sauromatias capital at the time when he was stalling so I tried to seize the moment and attacked the capital... well I was trashed by the PD and a new player took control of Sauromatia. He pushed me back immediatly... meanwhile I had started negotiations with Yomi as I realized that Maverni was planning to attack me. Yomi and I agreed to a NAP but he warned me about attacking Maverni as he told me they were allied and he would have to take his side if I was the aggressor.

Also Yomi is a good negotiator he asked for 2 provinces that bordered his capital (I took them because of Yomis big mistake of sending a Dai-Oni to his death while the troops were hiding away) as I still had no friend I had no choice but to agree. I realized that my war with Sauromatia would be hard for me to fight because of the long supply route and that Maverni was gathering forces on the border, so Sauromatia and I agreed to a border and now I could concentrate on my southern would be enemy Maverni.

I still couldn't make the initial attack due to the pact between Yomi and Maverni so I started gathering troops. Since my territory was small, only 5 provinces I got way to small income. I had to push the taxes up to 200% while patrolling. This I did in all my provinces and actually had the highest income of all for a couple of turns (I killed approx 9000 of my starting 30000 population in my capitol over the years as they tried to rebel against my high taxes).

Maverni made the first move and attacked and totally trashed my army in the first battle. He used loads of Eponi Knights on the flanks where I had 0, zero, zip, nada troops he slaughtered my army quite good. Quickly I sent more troops to the front. Atlantis showed up and become a new bordering nation. I quickly new that he was allied to Maverni as he refused to help me against them. Now I had two 1 province fronts, 1 against each of them.

Many battles was fought and at one time I really thought that I had a chance of pushing them back far. In the end... I lost... but that you already know.

So did I learn anything? Sure did I learned more in this game than every SP game I have played in Dominions 3 and Dominions 2 DEMO.

I want to thank FAJ (Yomi) and llamabeast (Sauromatia) for being good neighbours I also would like to thank Sheap (R'lyeh) for all the friendly messeges but most of all I want to thank my nemesis Xox (Maverni) and Darrel (Atlantis) for making this game fun. There actually was a moment I though I could advance on you... but you quickly killed that dream.

Bye all
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  #4  
Old December 10th, 2006, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing

Thanks Frank for the analysis. It is my hopes to give you one good (or at least better informed ) fight before I am dead.

By the way, is it possible to kill Oni with murdering winter? At most its one attack on them, and they all have a double life if they die.
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  #5  
Old December 10th, 2006, 05:40 PM

Shovah32 Shovah32 is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing

Abysia has joined the 'we hate tien chi' group and will be attacking as soon as our NAP is over.
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  #6  
Old December 10th, 2006, 06:21 PM

Sheap Sheap is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing

Saarud: You sort of got a raw deal with the sub (which was me at the time) taking over right before you were ready to attack the Sauromatian capital. On the other hand, if you are attacking a staling player, you need to move fast - they might return, someone might sub for them, and it's not like they're going to defend themselves.

Edit: I have no idea how Ulm consistently gets their turns done, like, 30 seconds before the timer expires
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Old December 10th, 2006, 06:24 PM

Xox Xox is offline
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Default Respect for the dead

Saarud you were a very very tough opponent. I could not understand how you had such a huge army with just 5 provinces. But then i figured out about the patrolling when i saw the population left in your capitol. And you never gave up and even attacked out of your capitol at the exact same time your dominion waned.

You never ever gave up and did all you could as long as you could. Next time i hope to be on your side. Both of us realized what a tough opponent you were and tried to make peace with you even though we knew we could win. I I understand why you refused. this was a very crowded game wiht close start positions.

Through victory and defeat you were a very good opponent in skill and most importanly in civility and good humour.

We put up many monuments to the brave people who once lived in these lands. although we also talk about how cruel these agarthas were to the local populace with their oppresive and deadly taxes

I salute you and your brave Agartha.

Xox
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  #8  
Old December 10th, 2006, 06:26 PM

Xox Xox is offline
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Default Re: Respect for the dead

NOt sure how much skill it took to defeat ulms army, after attacking Tien Chi I think he went stale last turn and seems to have gone stale this turn also. Two turns in a row.
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  #9  
Old December 10th, 2006, 06:28 PM

Xox Xox is offline
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Default Re: Respect for the dead

they are doing their turn just before the turn timer? Ok, strange though.
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