Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed?

[Foodstamp]

mivayan said:

They will? How odd. Flaming arrows can get past shield + protection, shortbows without that... no way.

That is the prescribed formula I have seen to counter Vanheim every single time someone has complained about it.

[UninspiredName]

I can vouch for him there. (Though many times they also suggest Flaming Arrows)

[Foodstamp]

Aye, when applicable, flaming arrows are usually suggested.

[Huzurdaddi]

NickW said:
If you need a specific scenario to get the conversation rolling, try telling me how to beat a F9/W9 Van rush with EA Ctis. That's a real scenario from a game I'm in.

Skell spam is, I think, your only hope for survival. But there are a number of problems with that strategy.

1) It needs enc-3
2) you need something to keep the vans off of you for a couple a castings or 2 ( IIRC vans have something like move 39 when W9 blessed ).
3) even when it goes right I'm not 100% sure what the ratio is of Vans to sauramancers to make it work. I would guess something like 1 sauramancer for every 4 vans or something like that but I have not tested.

Of course his counter would be to make a good number of Holy-Preists and then you are doomed. No hope.

And that is only talking about set-piece battles. Due to glamour he can raid you like crazy and there is nothing you can do about it.

The only nations which can deal with Van are:

1) abysia ( all ages ), since flame weapons do not affect their troops and Vans without flaming weapons are not that scary.
2) Niefelheim since the cold aura kills the vans.
3) as we saw in a post recently: Caelum since Caelum raiding is very hard to stop.
4) *maybe* ermor -- although this is more conjecture than fact.
5) maybe C'tis Miasma -- no one likes attacking Miasma with expensive troops.

Other than those nations you are SOL if you are near Vanheim ( have not tried Age of Vanir they seem somewhat less powerful ).

As for Van not breaking the game, they sure break it for the 1 or two empires that start next to them

[Foodstamp]

^^^ Totally agree, if your next to an aggressive Vanheim player in a multiplayer game, your pretty much SOL.

Later on in the game, players can team up against vanheim, but early in the game, no one wants to be the guy unfortunate enough to be their neighbor.

[Potatoman]

Isn't Helheim essentially vanheim with better bless troops?

[Shovah32]

For EA ctis (though ive never been successful with them) i would say skele spam with runners to hit the rear/archers(hopefully getting to mages/commanders) and possibly chariots to disrupt the enemy.

[Huzurdaddi]

I tried out the skelly spam. The results were not encouraging for you Nick.

I was setup as follows:
Van had 25 Vans + 1 Prophet.

C'tis had 80 HI + 1 Lizard King to use as "chaff". I then varied the number of sauramancers until C'tis won.

1) At a 1-4 ratio of Sauramancers to Helhirdlings (ie: 6 Sauramancers ) C'tis got smashed. Usually inflicting 2 losses to Van and losing all units in the process.

2) At a 1-3 ratio of Sauramancers to Helhirdlings (ie: 8 Sauramancers ) C'tis got crushed but inflicted more losses. Around 2-5 Helhirdlings got killed per combat.

3) At a 1-2 ratio of Sauramancers to Helhirdlings (ie: 12 Sauramancers ) C'tis wins consistently.

Just for fun I tried one time with a Scorpion King pretender ( with a nice F4 fire shield ) in front of block of HI. I figured that the Vans would get stuck on the Prot-20, fire immune pretender and they would then get swamped. I forgot that the Vans have lightlances ( and 39 AP ). The Scorpion king died on the initial charge

[Huzurdaddi]

Resource summary ( in the scenario where C'tis wins )

Code:

---

              C'tis        Van

Gold:         3500         1800

Resources:   ~1200         300

Castle Turns: 12           1

---

[upstreamedge]

I think the best way to fight vanheim is to get them taking as many morale checks as possible