Helheim Superpower!

[FrankTrollman]

As I said in the other thread, they remind me a lot of Ashen Empire Ermor in Dom2...

Yep.

• Reasonably easy to play
• Sufficiently different from other nations as to make standard tactics ineffective.
• Pretty vulnerable to tailored non-standard tactics.

You're Caelum? Try a squad of Mammoths trailing after a screen of indep infantry and set magicians up to cast a bunch of Freezing Mists.

Helhirdings die at about the same rate as anyone else to cloud spells or tramplers and cost 7 times as much each - their glamor is quite effective against many standard tactics - use non-standard tactics to take advantage of your numerical superiority.

-Frank

[Shovah32]

Your caelum? Get a bunch of flying mammoths(mammoths set to hold and attack beside mages casting flight) and air evocations and blast them away.

[tromper]

I've only played a bunch of ME games the past few months, single player with AIs random/difficult. As a new player it's ridiculous for you smarty experienced guys and gals to think we have to get so pre-planning bonkers whenever Vanheim randomly appears. Because every. Single. time. They dominate all other AIs.

I'm playing Ulm currently. Vanheim counter? Yeah right. I'm supposed to know beforehand? Gosh, the AIs are randomized. Tell me how to counter Van as they roll over two other of the five nations and start nailing the crap out of me. Turn 40-50 or so. Yeah right. Hopeless. And it's happened with ME C'tis as well. And another time. It's awful.

In my dumbo opinion, random games with the AI: Vanheim shows up? May as well quit that game and start another.

But hey, I suppose things are all balanced, yeah? And I shouldn't be playing the AI on random? heh

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Sounds like you are having fun!

No, the game is not balanced in the paper-rock-scissors way of thinking or the each-nation-has-equivalent-troops manner either. They ARE balanced in that there are so many different units, spells, tactics, etc. that effectively counters exist to any nation/unit/ability--it just takes thought and creativity.

Not that some nations (vanheim) aren't tough as nails for the inflexible and stupid AIs to take on. They are. And some are tougher than others for People as well, especially if you take a nation that is weak vs that particular nation.

Here's an easy counter for Van's glamour: hip-deep cheap hobbit infantry. Make them wade through hobbit chaff. Have 1 ind HI for every 3 hobbit chaff, and you got yourself a pretty easy, cheap counter.... You just have to worry about food. And archers. And slingers, really.... But standard glam units? Nah.

[FrankTrollman]

Turn 40 to 50? Try having 30 Master Smiths show up with the following script:

(Summon Earth Power) (Magma Eruption) (Magma Eruption)(Magma Eruption)(Magma Eruption)

Now put 12 stacks of black plate infantry which are each 2-5 men on "Hold and Attack: None" and place them each up and down the field in a mid-forward starting position.

Now take whatever indie archers you happen to have and stick them in three blobs to fire at Archers, Cavalry, and Closest. Position them in the middle in the top, center, and lower regions.

Now put the rest of your Ulmish infantry in a couple of big hold and attack blobs behind all the rest of your stuff.

Finally, take this army and march it directly to the Vanheim capitol and kill everything in your path. A turn 45 Ulm should have virtually no problem beating a van army in the field - especially one that's compuer controlled.

-Frank

[Corwin]

FrankTrollman said:
Turn 40 to 50? Try having 30 Master Smiths show up with the following script:

(Summon Earth Power) (Magma Eruption) (Magma Eruption)(Magma Eruption)(Magma Eruption)

Now put 12 stacks of black plate infantry which are each 2-5 men on "Hold and Attack: None" and place them each up and down the field in a mid-forward starting position.

Now take whatever indie archers you happen to have and stick them in three blobs to fire at Archers, Cavalry, and Closest. Position them in the middle in the top, center, and lower regions.

Now put the rest of your Ulmish infantry in a couple of big hold and attack blobs behind all the rest of your stuff.

Finally, take this army and march it directly to the Vanheim capitol and kill everything in your path. A turn 45 Ulm should have virtually no problem beating a van army in the field - especially one that's compuer controlled.

-Frank

I agree, that's a good tactic against Vanheim. Although I am not sure why would you want your decoy HI infantry to be positioned in 2-5. They will rout easly due to both small size (plus they would be subject for the additional "below 5" morale check), and the whole squard would likely to be destroyed anyway by vans as soon as they connect. As a decoy, I would use single soldiers.

And why "hold/attack/none" rather than "hold/attack/closest" or "hold/Attack/rear"?

But these are minor points, either way such army will steamroll van's sacred troops, I agree.

[HoneyBadger]

Try Tien Ch'i in early games against Helheim on small maps-and especially maps which are continents with no islands. Use your chariots and warriors of 5 elements with lots of support to capture provinces and your national archers and massive amounts of cheap pike plus lots of province defense to take away provinces from Van, ensuring they can't capture them back. Make sure you've got better scales than they do (if they're using high bless strategy, you will) and build temples like crazy on those guarded provinces. Eventually you should attrition them to death and be able to build an army strong enough to take out their home province. Once you do, destroy their fortress! The reason for this is, if they happen to capture the home province back, it gives you a handful of rounds to take it back before they can get the fortress set back up and start rolling out the sacreds again. Use your whole national budget if you can for a couple of rounds and really build an ungodly force on that home-you don't ever want them to get it back if you can help it(see above)-and guard the surrounding provinces just as well if you can-after that, just demolish them slow and steady. As far as magic goes, Tien Ch'i has excellent rainbow mage-priests, some of which can fly, so you can beat them magically as well as economically, so long as you're better at holding the territory you've got than Helheim is.

[Gandalf Parker]

tromper said:
I've only played a bunch of ME games the past few months, single player with AIs random/difficult. As a new player it's ridiculous for you smarty experienced guys and gals to think we have to get so pre-planning bonkers whenever Vanheim randomly appears. Because every. Single. time. They dominate all other AIs.

That really surprises me. In most of my games Ermor takes the lead early on, and Oceania is the leader later (for AIs of course). I would think it might be a small map with indepts set to a low number if Vanheim walks all over the other AIs.