Helheim Superpower!

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually thats not true. Maenads attack anywhere from two to five rounds. Definetly long enough to get a rout from the other guy in many instances. And of course estimations about how long it takes to make a Pan reasonable as an assassin depends on the game which is part of my point.

Sure lets play. 1500 provinces, indepts at 9, scattered structures and monsters across the map, AI's with alliances, 25 victory points (provinces with crowns that you have to take and hold) with 20 VP needed for a win.

[Jack_Trowell]

Do maenad start having already gone berserk ? Berserking units units usually doesn't rout even when the whole army does, it might explain ...

[SelfishGene]

1500?? Indies at 9? Those are some bizarre settings.

[Jack_Trowell]

SelfishGene said:
1500?? Indies at 9? Those are some bizarre settings.

Gandaf is well known to love *big* maps, he's almost legendary for this. ^_^

[Gandalf Parker]

SelfishGene said:
1500?? Indies at 9? Those are some bizarre settings.

Those are the kinds of games I like to play.
That was part of my point from the beginning. I wouldnt have bothered poking into this thread at all if it had said that Vans were a problem on small map multiplayer kill-everyone games that tend to end quickly, or something like that. It might seem that most people play Dom as player-vs-player arenas. And that leads to the impression that its what Dom is for. But thats mostly from the traffic in these forums. Obviously the vocal people in these forums dont reflect most players altho they might reflect a large number in these forums. With such a good manual, much of the traffic here are people who are looking for those type of games.

Even discounting solo players which there must many MANY of based on sales... there are many variables in even MP thats that would matter. Large maps, hard indies, high research, low resources, MP games that stress alliances instead of PvP, Victory Point games (I dont think Ive ever played a game with the Devs that wasnt a VP game so it definetly cant be discounted as part of what Dom is). Its usually better to try and state that something is true based on the types of games being played.

Not to mention the really chaotic stuff I like to throw in like scattering squads of monsters all over the map. But I know thats totally off the wall. Johan tells me that every once in awhile.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
Obviously the vocal people in these forums dont reflect most players altho they might reflect a large number in these forums.

Really? You've polled a representative sampling of the population who plays the game? Or are you just making stuff up like when you tell people that commanderless troops won't rout on the first turn.

[Gandalf Parker]

Jack_Trowell said:
Do maenad start having already gone berserk ? Berserking units units usually doesn't rout even when the whole army does, it might explain ...

It does seem to be a random roll of the dice to see which side decides to rout first. Its not an absolute either way so its not a great tactic, but it does have its uses. People I have used it on have complained loudly about it and it has forced them to alter their planned strategies. It might not be a game winner, but its a game affector.

Most of my tactics tend to be more useful as an big-game ally than on a PvP small-map blitz. But it might also be that Ive never bothered testing them in those types of games so I will leave that rating of them up to people who are experienced in those types of contests.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
It does seem to be a random roll of the dice to see which side decides to rout first.

If your opponent has no commanders, which as I already explained, is not the case for anybody who has bought a single point of province defense. If they have, then the maenads rout on their first turn, every single time. After 30 turns with a single Pan in each of 10 provinces, not a single battle was won.

[Maltrease]

You know where that could still be extremely useful is if you are fighting Vanhiem or Heleheim (midly back to topic). It would actually let you see where there troops really are and what kind of forces they are building up.

I wonder if you had a harpy attack a provence the same turn the maenads spawn... one that was repeately shown to have low PD. How high of a PD you could take out? If you could make them raise it to 7+ you could then take it out with small raiding force. That might be troublesome to deal with if they have to focus their main attention elsewhere.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
Actually thats not true. Maenads attack anywhere from two to five rounds.

Completely incorrect. They rout on the first turn, which you would know if you had bothered to test it. Even if they didn't rout, five maenads (which is more than what you will get in an opponents order dominion) are not going to rout a province defense that costs 23 gold, which is what your Pan costs you every single turn.

Sure lets play. 1500 provinces, indepts at 9, scattered structures and monsters across the map, AI's with alliances, 25 victory points (provinces with crowns that you have to take and hold) with 20 VP needed for a win.

Why would you suggest adding AIs and extra provinces to a two player multiplayer game that would take several years to complete unless you didn't want to debate honestly? You've also just given the victory to Caelum with those conditions, since he'll be able to cloud trapeze into all of the victory provinces long before your footsloggers get anywhere near them.