Red Army = most effective force !

[Listy]

Kuklinovsky said:
2. Soviet had advantage in armor up to the end of Cold War! They fielded T-80U in 1985 which was equivalent of US M1A1HA made five years later.

Ok I'll bite, seeing as I just sprayed my breakfast all over the place in fits of laughter.

How is a 46 ton tank, better than one nearly twice it's weight? I'd also like to ask what evidence you bring to support this?

[Marek_Tucan]

Listy said:
I'd also like to ask what evidence you bring to support this?

No evidence needed, it's as self-evident as the fact T-34 was best tank of WWII and Sherman was just a total failure

[Nightblade]

Last time i played a post year 2000 small generated battle, i understood why i should not buy anything expensive for such low battle points/small map if i was playing usa/usmc and have red army as opponent.

After deploying my 4 SEAL platoons (4 SEAL platoons are a total of 8 squads and 4 pathfinders) with 3 CH-46 for quick insertion in objective, i had the surprise to see nearly a hundred of infantry and APC to run and quickly overwhelm my poor small platoons.

And despite using lots of smoke grenade to create some ambush for this insane amount of APC in the objective zone, while this helped really against infantry, with the incredible bad luck at assaulting APC those SEAL had (despite the SEAL squads are classed as engineer in the game), in less than 10 turns, mostly everyone was dead.

After checking a bit more after game, the 4 SEAL platoons + 3 CH46 were costing me 1860 BP, with such an amount of BP , using red army you could buy 14 Mech platoons (42 squads and +/- 35/40 APC).

So if you plan to play with small battle points against an army that comes with cheap to buy units, never ever buy expensive units if you plan to have a chance, or just do not let the AI to buy what he wants, buy things yourself for it.

[Marek_Tucan]

The SEAL and other specials are more for scen design than for "real" battle Or for PBEM with agreed limits to the other side...

[Marcello]

"How is a 46 ton tank, better than one nearly twice it's weight?"

I suppose that if by "equivalent" he means that it would not be a Gulf War style one sided massacre he might be right.Consider however:
1) no thermal sight;
2) several weak spots in the front armor;
3) ammunition performance likely insufficient to deal with M1A1 HA;
4) various odd ends, like unprotected ammo storage, insufficient main gun depression etc.;

[pdoktar]

Marek, hope you were sarcastic, as T-34 WAS the best tank in the WWII. At least I consider it as the mother of all modern tank designs...

[pdoktar]

Yep, Nightblade, you can easy count out your Chinooks from that force core points in a real firefight. Besides, as Russia has less than 70 exp points as core experience, the red army units become even cheaper to buy in numbers. Overwhelming numbers, and as their tech advances, troop quality doesnt matter that much anymore, especially in "one-shot-one-kill" units.

All in all I consider the red Army to be a first-class foe in winSPMBT after 2000. Just remember, that an Oob designer has a lot to say with every country. (And the guy who put up Russia, did a very comprehensive work, considering WinSPMBT picks and tactics)

[Mobhack]

If you plan to use special farces, then these are best used in a scenario, and not a generated battle.

Generated battles are for normal line forces meeting normal line forces.


Special farces (SAS, Spetznatz and so on) are provided as a tool for the scenario designer. They don't appear on the normal battlefield (or if they do, they belong to the army-level commanders, and not you as "Lt Col Regular Guy"

The scenario designer can then plan a situation where the eliteness of the special farces can be balanced by the setup (lack of time and so on and so forth).

Cheers
Andy

[Nightblade]

If you buy yourself the units/equipment the AI will use against your army, you can easily solve this problem and then create a possible "to win" or "to lose" battle according to the armies setup you decide.

This way, sf or other kind of very expensive units can be very well used in generated battles without a problem and prevent the frustration such 100 vs 1 situation usually lead into when the AI buy very cheap units in nearly invicincible amount.

[Smersh]

Doing that means no suprises. although, I've done that occiasonly to give the ai, in my mind, more realistic buys.