Another problem with retreating from combat

Spectarofdeath · #1 January 7th, 2007, 04:03 PM

Wouldnt mines solves this problem? And mines in adjacent sectors?

Slick · #2 January 7th, 2007, 04:08 PM

I can't see how. If you are going to exploit this to bypass warp point defenses, you surely will already have enough minesweeping capabilities in your fleet to handle mines at the warp point. So your fleet would just sweep mines encountered anywhere.

Suicide Junkie · #3 January 7th, 2007, 04:12 PM

It is not the faster ships that are the problem. They've got a legitimate tech advantage, or possibly less guns and armor in order to fit more engines (QNP).

It is the ships of the same speed that can escape forever.
Which means you need to sacrifice guns/armor to catch them, and which then means you have a big disadvantage in the fighting.

Spectarofdeath · #4 January 7th, 2007, 04:58 PM

What about engine damaging weapons? Or Tractor beams? As far as a fleet goes, if your equipping a entire fleet just to make it past a wp defense, then your going to be way outgunned and if we're talking a fleet, starbases, mines, sats and all that good stuff for a Wp defense force I don't see how your just going to enter the sector and zoom to a retreat without taking some heavy casualties. Plus, if you have this much of a speed advantage, and your talking about playing against a human, they should notice that your bldg your ships with speed and mind and plan accordingly, say several hunter-killer fleets with their own extremly fast ships to catch any breakthrough attempt. If we're talking about the AI....the AI sucks anyway and wouldn't know if you were above it's homeworld bombarding it to oblivion.

Edit: And about the ships being the same speed, I think if my colony ship has the same amount of speed as your frigate then yeah, it should be able to retreat, not just get stuck moving around the edges of the map waiting for the intercept. Thats the price you pay for not researching better engines or for putting that extra DUC on.

Suicide Junkie · #5 January 7th, 2007, 05:05 PM

The problem with weapons is that you have to get in range to use them.

Yes, an invasion force will lose a few ships at a warppoint, but the rest are free to roam and retreat everywhere else in deep space.
Posting a satellite in every hex to prevent retreats and replacing them every time a ship flies past is not fun.

And my point is that, as is, they do not have to be designed to run the defenses. Equal speed ships... in fact identical warships to yours can escape with minor losses.
You can never catch up to them, so if you use max range strategy you kill at most one ship during the chase to infinity phase. Point blank attempts depend on your starting position, but they are firing back at you with just as much firepower as you are at them, so any of your ships in range get shot down, and maybe you can take some with you.
Suckage ensues.

Tim_Ward · #6 January 7th, 2007, 05:18 PM

Fighters.

Suicide Junkie · #7 January 7th, 2007, 05:55 PM

How will that help the defense?
Unless fighters are super powerful and uberfast, and tough enough to take PD fire from a fleet of retreating enemies even while facing any fighters the enemy sends...

All I ask for is a toggle option in settings.txt to prevent retreat. Let them fall back for a while if they have artillery, but eventually they'll have to face the music head on.

Spectarofdeath · #8 January 7th, 2007, 06:07 PM

I guess what it comes right down to is preference then. There should be a no retreat option for the game, and a retreat option. To me I prefer to have the retreat. It adds realism. It's not like through history two opposing forces get in range of each other and a giant steel curtain falls around them and God says "Lets get ready to rummmmmmmmmbbbbbblllleeee!!!" Retreating can even be used as a offensive manuever, if you have all your ships retreating you might lure the enemy into sending his fastest ships at you at maximum rather then escorting the slower ones and defeat in detail ensues. Personally, I play this way, I design the same ship several times. Lets say a Destroyer. I give one all the speed it can handle. This would be my scouting destroyer designed to penetrate enemy space and give me a heads up whats going on in the sector. I give the next one all the weapons it can carry and hold. This is my battle destroyer, designed for combat with the enemy. And last I might make a support destroyer of some kind, say one with mine/sat/fighter launching, or maybe it's a repair ship, or maybe a AA ship. The point is, I don't just design one class of a ship and then wait for it to be obsolete then design another, I design multiple at once. I might not do this for every single ship design, but when it comes to the lighter ships, multiple designs (for me) is the way to go. How you feel about them running wild through your space is how I felt watching my colony ship get trashed by a scout with 1 DUC in SEIV on like turn 3 because it couldn't actually retreat, it had to run the clock down.