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  #1  
Old January 11th, 2007, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: why buy armor?

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bhutnath said:
I just cant seem to see any sense in buying armor. So folks help me out here, what is it about armored units that I am overlooking?
The main ability of tanks is the move/attack factor IMHO; I mean, unlike any other non-inf unit in the game, MBTs are tank killing equipment that are able to move and fire several shots in the same turn thatīs a hell of a capability, I canīt remember all the situations where a couple of tanks and some lucky shots saved my flanked *** thanks to that move and fire ability

Their main weakness, however, is their poor LOS range against infantry ambushes and atgms, thatīs why you want to keep them escorted (and thier paths scouted) by inf. all the time unless you want to see them toasted; cheap mounted infantry does fine.

From my personal experience, tanks in winspmbt are modeled and intended to provide close support to infantry (either advancing or defending)and as main tank killers. When your infantry and artillery are compromised your tanks are a very versatile platform you can rely on for last minute/suprise and /or exploit maneuvers, something you canīt do that easily with your infantry or mobile atgms alone.

One classic example: tanks can remain hidden behind a slope, wait for the target to be supressed by other means, aproach, fire, and get back to the slope again.

Tanks are also very good for sneak/flank/destroy soft echleon targets operations, again, something you canīt do at the same tempo with infantry. Without tanks your tactics tend to be more static, adding tanks to the ecuation provides endless possibilities (Yeaph..Iīm a "tankie" )

Just my two cents

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Robert
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Old January 11th, 2007, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: why buy armor?

yeah, even when ATGMs arrive, tanks still remain one of the best anti-tank platforms.
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Old January 12th, 2007, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: why buy armor?

Well, as Robert says, tanks have over ATGM units the advantage of mobility, armor and more fire opportunities. SPMBT is very unforgiving with the firing rate of ATGM units, so they can be used nearly only in defense.
One other advantage of tanks over missile tank hunters: larger ammo allowance!
10-15 ATGMs are disposed of really quickly, particularly against mobile targets (not mentioning the 4 rounds of foot ATGM teams), while a tank can pack 30-40 AT rounds or more and make good use of them from a decent position.
So I tend to use tanks as the most versatile and resilient mobile platform around. Makes good use as long as you keep them in a balanced force mix and don't push your luck. Oh, and some kind of technological edge over the enemy's best (at least being able to punch through his best armor) can also help...
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Old January 12th, 2007, 07:26 AM

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Default Re: why buy armor?

Three words against ATGMs: ARENA, VIRSS, Mortars. Besides tanks speed, versatility (HE and AP and MG capability) and armor (especially versus the most common type of artillery, mortars) are key ingredients of a balanced battlegroup.
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Old January 12th, 2007, 08:28 PM

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Default Re: why buy armor?

To be fair, I dont think anyone is saying that armor isnt useful. It has been amply demostrated by people that it can be VERY useful and fulfills a distinct role.

That said, I think the gist of his argument is whether its worth the points or not in the game. I see people referencing the mobility of armor to shore up a flank etc, but the question is whether you would have an exposed flank in the first place with another company and change of infantry and support instead of a few tanks.

With WW2-era equipment, a platoon of tanks is roughly the same cost as a company of infantry (until you start getting into the super-heavies Tiger/Tiger IIs etc). That seems like a pretty worthwhile trade-off. But for say, a NATO vs Pact circa 1990ish scenario, a platoon of M1A1s cost about as much as TWO companies of standard US infantry. So are you really getting TWO companies worth of value out of those 4 tanks? I dont know....

Obviously if you are on the attack and time is short, the dismounts are not likely to get to the objective easily, but discouting that type of set-up, are those tanks really worth the cost? They are far more likely to be outflanked despite their mobility and they are far more susceptible to 'bad luck'. A single mis-step or mistake and you could lose a 1/4 your force in one swoop. By contrast, it would take a significant amount of time and firepower to eliminate half of a company of infantry.

There does come a point of diminishing returns on infantry though. Arty will wreck a densely packed group of two infantry companies as easily as it will wreck one. So in a 10000 point battle or so, going with massed dismounts probably isnt terribly cost effective either (unless its a big map). But for the smaller engagements, I do agree to a point with the OP that with standard 'armor' it can be hard to justify the cost to field them.

Personally, I think the cost of armor scales up too quickly relative the the cost of infantry in SPMBT (when compared to SPWW2). I mean do modern tanks kill infantry THAT much better than WW2 equivalents? I dont believe that is quite the case. And by contrast, dismounted infantry can have a lot more capability to threaten modern armor than their WW2 counter-parts, further increasing the disparity. Finally, the cost for anti-tank obstacles/mines doesnt seem to scale up with their effectiveness either. They are just as useful vs modern armor that costs 10-15x what their WW2 brethren cost yet their cost is relatively fixed.

Just some food for thought...
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Old January 13th, 2007, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: why buy armor?

Quote:
Uncle_Joe said:
That said, I think the gist of his argument is whether its worth the points or not in the game.
Absolutely right! My opinion: yes, armor is relatively expensive compared to infantry (in wspmbt).
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Old January 13th, 2007, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: why buy armor?

It also depends on the era and the type of infantry formation. In the 1945-1965. A tank company is usually twice the cost of a mechenized infantry company, this doesn't seem unreasonable.

in the later eras, where IFV come into the fold, they are also quite expensive. So unless your buying only leg infantry (which puts you at a disadvantage on larger size maps) the price of infantry and armour is fairly well-balanced.

Most modern infantry post-WW2 fight with a APC or IFV. Unless your playing insurgency or korea, veitnam type games you should be buying mech. troops.
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