SEV Recommend? - Page 6

President_Elect_Shang · #51 January 23rd, 2007, 09:53 AM

I'm not holding out hope, I stand firm that it will one day. This game brings to the table the pieces and once us modders start rearranging them and creating newer and better mods... Aaron has made the tool and it is more powerful than any prior version. Now we just need to put it together in the right ways to spark a renewed interest. Ask yourselves how many of the current problems would be so frustrating if you were playing an SE5 version of the AST, with a 3D Federation, Klingon, and Romulan set made by Atrocities? I think a few of the nay-sayers here would be more tolerant then.

Raapys · #52 January 23rd, 2007, 10:40 AM

Unfortunately for Aaron, by the time he's fixed the majority of flaws and made the AI actually give some competition, he'll have lost most of the customers' interest.

OT: What's up with all the Star Trek love on the forums? O_O
Am I the only one who thinks Babylon 5 is uncomparably much better?

President_Elect_Shang · #53 January 23rd, 2007, 11:21 AM

From someone who owns every B5 set and movie put out? No; you are not alone.

Demorve · #54 January 23rd, 2007, 10:35 PM

The point I was trying to make about firing arcs is this: when you have 50+ ships with 10 different variations, each with different firing arcs and all the ships look a like it would become very cumbersome to handle. COH and others like it have very simple firing arcs (basically forward) and all units have the same firing arcs regardless of their unit type. I haven't played COH, but I have played Act of War and Rome: Total War and their firing arcs were as mentioned earlier and I did not have to deal with 50+ units and I'm not sure Act of War or COH have firing arcs just line of sight with directional damage only to certain units.

President_Elect_Shang · #55 January 23rd, 2007, 11:29 PM

All this talk of firing arcs being cumbersome gives me a chuckle. When I first played games with firing arcs they were on hex maps spread over a table and used pre-cut chits for the ships. No one complained that was cumbersome. Now we have a computer to handle it and suddenly that's to hard to play with. No insult meant Demorve but you would have chocked, spasmed, and died if you had been around for one of our Friday night battles. I have seen sides with as many as 30+ ships against foes just as large. And all you had was a sheet with the ships info, your 30+ chits, and a set of dice!

Raapys · #56 January 23rd, 2007, 11:36 PM

Good to hear, Shang.

Demorve: Controlling 50+ ships manually is cumbersome with or without firing arcs; the ship/unit AI should be smart enough to handle firing arcs( had they existed) without manual input, so it wouldn't be an issue unless you absolutely desired to do the battles manually, an action that is rather unfair to the AI at any rate.

Captain Kwok · #57 January 24th, 2007, 12:04 AM

I think the bigger concern with firing arcs would be if there were ship set based - that would be a terrible thing to balance. Mount based Arcs might now be such a bad idea at some point.

Demorve · #58 January 24th, 2007, 12:12 AM

Shang, I used to play those games as well, but remember those were turned-based, not real time. I have played computer games that used firing arcs as well and enjoyed them. The point I'm trying to make here is that you could have 50,60 or 100 or more ships that look a like, but need to be used in a different ways because of their design. This can get confusing. Take one look at Starfury, that game had firing arcs and directional damage. Do you really want to try and control 50 such ships all at the same time?

Raapys, Isn't the purpose of having tactical combat is so you can manually control your fleets. If I want the AI to handle all my combat I will just play GalCiv2, because the AI is far superior to SEV. I have played RTS games where I did control over 50+ units and through the use of key bindings, unit consistency and an efficient UI I was able to maintain control of all my units. It got hectic but it wasn't cumbersome.

President_Elect_Shang · #59 January 24th, 2007, 01:23 AM

Another old timer too!

No I wasn't trying to make a point. I was talking about board games and this is a computer game. So I really don't see how the two can be compared. I just thought it was funny to have to keep up with all those ships and the papers for them. It was so hectic. Now we have the computer, no more papers but it still seems just as hectic. On topic I did like the idea of firing arcs at first. Anymore I think they would be bad for the same reason CPT Kwok pointed out. How to keep the ship sets balanced? You can't ask the players to go in and balance a ship set just so they can play it. You certainly can't ask the modder to do it. Some modders have the skills and some don't. With the modding curve of SE5 and the shipset curve I think you will see clear lines of division form. Put another way I could mod a ship sets firing arc but how funky would it be for a Super Star Destroyer to shoot green stuff out its butt right? I liked the first line of your reply Raapys; it made me feel very old!

Suicide Junkie · #60 January 24th, 2007, 06:40 AM

Its not all about micromanaging your little tokens (although that can be great fun if you maintain a tiny little empire)

Rolling in huge fleets to support your allies against a huge and powerful enemy is great too: http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...an1_turn05.jpg

And using 300 ships with complementary strategies and designs plus a tide-turning strategic manoeuver (pincer attack FTW) to overcome an enemy force of 400? That's golden.
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...Tudran2_02.jpg

Once you get up into that level of the game, the little guys don't matter so much anymore... Manoeuvers, supply and politics become key. Individual planets fade, and become defensive lines and shipbuilding provinces.