Neo Standard for SE V?

[President_Elect_Shang]

I'm still confused; why not? Unless I understand something wrong or just misunderstand what you are calling the "file" won't the following happen when SE5 runs?

Name: Big Freaken Ship
Short Name, Description, blah, blah, blah
Vehicle Portrait Primary: [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Warship3.bmp (Oops can't find it next line)
Vehicle Portrait Alternate: [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Warship3.bmp (Oops can't find it next line)
Vehicle Portrait Default: [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Destroyer.bmp (Ah there it is I found that bmp)

Primary = NEO++
Alternate = NEO+
Default = Stock

Why won't that work if all the modders and shipset makers know that the agreed upon standard is Warship3 for the third largest hull size which is also the Destroyer in Stock.

Now if you are saying because "Stock doesn't use that name so Stock games won't be able to use that shipset" I say no problem. Either (1) we can get Aaron to change Primary and leave the rest in Stock alone; which would cover both NEO++ and NEO+ makers. Or (2) we can stipulate "This is a NEO# set and requires the instillation of the modified Stock file located at www_blahblahblah_blah.". Or finally (3) we can do both and be doubly covered.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Just to avoid confusion I am suggesting we ask Aaron to include an altered Stock file one of us makes for him. The new Stock would look like this, still using the DD as our example.

Name: Destroyer
Short Name, Description, blah, blah, blah
Vehicle Portrait Primary: [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Warship3.bmp
Vehicle Portrait Alternate: [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Destroyer.bmp
Vehicle Portrait Default: [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Destroyer.bmp

Now we have a NEO shipsets covered for Stock. Heck I'll make the file myself once we agree on what we want. I need a break from this AI anyway!

[Phoenix-D]

Half the point of the neo-standard is stock (and the Balance Mod) don't require modification. I mean, what if you've got half neo-standard ships and half stock?

Besides, what the image FILE is named really doesn't have that big of an impact on how the image is used..

[President_Elect_Shang]

Phoenix-D said:
Half the point of the neo-standard is stock (and the Balance Mod) don't require modification. I mean, what if you've got half neo-standard ships and half stock?

Besides, what the image FILE is named really doesn't have that big of an impact on how the image is used..

I'm sorry PD no offense but I honestly don't understand any of what you are trying to say here?

[Fyron]

All we need to do is clearly indicate the relative positioning new sizes should have compared to the stock sizes. Is this one the biggest warship? The smallest? Between cruiser and battlecruiser? For a mod, you can arbitrarily remap the model names to whatever hull class names you want. Don't have an escort, but want to use all the hulls? Ok, start your mod's destroyer using the "escort" hull, light cruiser using the "destroyer" hull, and work your way up from there. If someone uses a non-neostandard set, they get the two smallest hulls using the destroyer model, rather than the two largest hulls using dreadnought.

I don't think that we should suggest that shipset modelers completely rename the stock sizes. That will just sow confusion.

I don't think we should insert extra hull sizes in the middle of the progression anyways. Maybe one at the small end and one at the large end (not counting a worldship). That would increase the range of warship hulls from 7 to 9 (counting the baseship hull as a standard image, since it is called for by stock, though most stock sets don't include one).

[President_Elect_Shang]

So we are back to square one, what are the new suggested sizes. Sizes not classes or roles! I think Explorer and Escort are sizes but both have been tossed back as roles/classes. How about Corvette then on the low end and Juggernaut on the high end? That's two more for nine.

[Shadowstar]

An explorer can be a big ship with weapons and science equipment, like the Enterprise, or it can be a small ship designed to be cheap and fast. An Escort can be a small ship like a police cutter, or a medium ship, like an interceptor.

A simplified approach seems best in my opinion. Here is what I would suggest: (stock sizes are marked with *'s, new stuff is marked with +'s)

Units (troops covered seperately):
* Small
* Medium
* Large
+ Special (For mods, looks like a medium version with some extra bits - one for each unit type. Fighters could use this size as a shuttle, drones could use it as a probe, etc.)

Troops:
* Small Troop
* Medium Troop
* Large Troop
+ Infantry (this seems to be widely requested so might as well put it in)
+ Special Troop (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods, maybe unneeded?)

Warships:

* frigate (also used for escorts, recon ships, cutters)
* destroyer (also heavy frigates, patrol ships)
* light cruiser (corvettes, destroyer-escorts)
* cruiser
* battleship (also lineships, flagships)
* dreadnought (man-o-wars, juggernaughts, megatonners)
* baseships (motherships, super-megatonners, nubians)
+ worldships (deathstars, city-ships, generation ships)
+ special light (An unusual-looking ship, about the size of a light cruiser, for mods)
+ special heavy (An unusual-looking ship, slightly smaller than a dreadnought, for mods)

Transports:
* small freighter
* medium freighter
* large freighter
+ special transport (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods)

Carriers:
* light carrier
* medium carrier
* heavy carrier
+ special (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods)

Bases:
* space station (orbital forts, orbital construction yards)
* starbase (defense stations, mining bases)
+ special (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods)

By using special types for the majority of new sizes, it leaves alot of room open for the designer to make race-unique ships, and have those ships then adapt to whatever mod they are inserted into. It's important to remember that what we are designing here doesn't stop at the sizes of the ships, but is really much more connected to what they look like. For certain ships, there is no reason to really have them look any different, but for others there needs to be a visual difference, both in size AND shape.

It should also be noted that many of the units have universal defaults, so instead of designing 3 different troops, you could just make one and call it "troop" and it would use that for all 3. I mention this because anyone who is planning on doing the extra work involved in making a Neostandard++ shipset is most likely going to also be making these extra models which are still technically stock.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Shadowstar I never said they weren't also roles and classes I said for me they are sizes too.

You have done a fine job outlining what may be added for a NEO++. Now what are they going to be called; "Special.bmp"? Worldship and baseship don't count.

[Phoenix-D]

I'm sorry PD no offense but I honestly don't understand any of what you are trying to say here?

Any neo-standard should not require modifying stock or changing the names of any of the stock files.