Understanding Communion

[Aleph]

So - what are the gem implications for the above spellcasting example? The Sorceress would pay 0, and each slave would pay 1, for 8 gems loss? (if they had gems, that is?)

[thejeff]

The Sorceress would pay the 3 gems necessary to cast the spell. Probably no more, though I've never quite figured out the "using gems to reduce fatigue" AI.

The slaves would/could use no gems.

[llamabeast]

Yep, I agree with thejeff there. Although it would cost the slaves 100 fatigue, that just means 100 fatigue, whereas 100 fatigue in spell descriptions is code for "100 fatigue and a gem".

And actually, although I said that's an example where communion's not very good, actually I think I lied - if you had no air boosters, that might be the only way you could cast a battle-winning Fog Warriors, although I think 4 slaves would do at a pinch.

With 4 slaves the sorceress would become level 4. She'd then spend 1 gem to become level 5 for the turn, and 3 for the spell - so she'd spend her maximum of 4 gems for the turn. She'd take 300 fatigue, but since you can never take more than 200 fatigue from a single spell (an important rule that I don't think is explicit in the manual), she wouldn't die.

The slaves on the other hand would only be level 2, three levels too low, so the spell would be quadruple cost, giving each one 4*300/5 = 240 fatigue. So here's another question - would that just count as 200 fatigue, or would they die?

[Meglobob]

llamabeast said:
So here's another question - would that just count as 200 fatigue, or would they die?

I can tell you from experience they would die. I have killed off loads of communion slaves in my time. Entire rows of 8 going 'pop' as they die.

Communion Master/slave is very powerful and can win you many battles, you just after be careful how to use it.

A good use for MA Ermor is with multiple shadow blasting. Have 8 Thaumaturgs script communion slave, hold, hold, hold, hold, retreat. The retreat order is there to save your slaves from dieing. The masters, grand thaumaturgs, communion master, shadow blast, shadow blast, shadow blast, shadow blast, retreat.

Its a pain having to gather them all up again but at least it increases the chances of them staying alive. Also worth it to win a important/big battle.

[llamabeast]

I didn't realise communion slaves would still do things once they were slaved. Will they still do everything except cast spells then? Can you send them into battle?

Ooh ooh, I have another question. Do fatigue-restoring spells affect slaves? I know that Reinvigoration doesn't, because I tested it. How about, say, Drain Life?

Summon Earth Power is a very good spell to cast if you have someone with earth who can be a communion master. I'm pretty sure that works.

[thejeff]

Communion slave only act on turns none of the masters cast.

I'm not sure how hold orders play into that.

[Meglobob]

thejeff said:
Communion slave only act on turns none of the masters cast.

I'm not sure how hold orders play into that.

The hold orders are just to fill space until the retreat order. Otherwise the AI will have the masters cast raise dead or such until all the slaves are dead and usually well after the battle as been won.

[Teraswaerto]

llamabeast said:
Ooh ooh, I have another question. Do fatigue-restoring spells affect slaves? I know that Reinvigoration doesn't, because I tested it. How about, say, Drain Life?

Summon Earth Power is a very good spell to cast if you have someone with earth who can be a communion master. I'm pretty sure that works.

I also think Earth Power will work, however since it reinvigorates at different levels based on the Earth skill of the caster, will the slaves get reinvig at the caster's level, or their own, which would be 0?

Relief obviously will work on the slaves, which could be good, or totally useless if the slaves get so much fatigue in 1 round that they die before it get's a chance to affect them.

[Taqwus]

Not that I recall Fire being a MA Ermor trait, but more generally...

A communion master casting Phoenix Pyre can have some very *interesting* results. Experiments are left as an exercise to the uninitiated.

[Baalz]

One other neat strategy I came up with quite by accident (accidentally placing my infantry in the rear one fight) is to use your comunion slaves as blockers. This can be very useful because they are effected by everything the communion masters cast to buff themselves. That means if you have a large communion with diverse mages, you can have each master cast one of the following:
body ethereal, personal luck, invulnrability, breath of winter, fire shield, astral shield, mistform, etc. etc. Each master (in the back row) is only moderately buffed, but each slave (in the front) is a fairly indestructable linebacker. Obviously you need some way to cope with arrows before your buffs take effect (chaff works well), but I've actually found this is pretty damn effective because the synergy here is that the higher the slave:master ratio is, the longer the masters can keep casting...while also having more effective linebackers (with fire shield, breath of winter, etc. they even have a bite). Not many deaths from fatigue when you've got a 4:1 ratio...