Spies and unrest

[Saxon]

Hmm, the Bards have +30 stealth. My units in LA are +0, which is not very inspiring. I agree, some magic to help boost this would be very nice, though it might push the +30 units into the untouchable range. Still, if I can go for volume, I might be able to make up for it. Must check if they are capital only.

Unrest doesn’t effect gems. Can anyone confirm that?

[Aleph]

Yes, I can confirm that.

Pangea also has Satyr Sneaks who increase unrest in a province without the need for initiating an increase unrest action, via seducing farmer's daughters and wives (I'm not kidding). They are quite stealthy and can rapidly drive up unrest. My favorite aspect of their skills, though, is that to top it all off you can lead them with Dryads, who are capable of stealth preaching. So you have stealth preachers who are also able to drive up protective levels of unrest to prevent themselves from getting caught - three Dryads with full loads of 40 sneaks is a relatively small investment to shut down a fortress and knock it out of enemy dominion. A great twofer.

[thejeff]

Unrest does not affect gems.

I've noticed something odd about catching spies.
SP game, playing MA Ulm, I've had a bunch of spies causing unrest in Pythium's capital for awhile now. He rarely catches any, but when he does he seems to catch all of them.
The first time, I'd just started and assumed he'd just boosted his patrollers. The second time I already had roughly 150 unrest there. He had the standard capital 25 PD and judging from the troops that attacked my poor spies another 60 or so patrolling. With the penalty from unrest his chances should have been slim, but he caught all 4 spies.

Is the roll only made once for patrolling, so if he got a good open-ended roll all stealthy units are likely to be caught?

[PhilD]

interesting catch, thejeff - but I seem to recall that probability of getting caught is supposed to be linked to the "army size" - so it seems to make sense that several spies/scouts/whatever are detected together, and the more, the easier.

What this means is that your spies collaborate, they're not independent, dormant agents. So it would make sense if several different scouts gave widely more accurate reports

[thejeff]

Army size, yes, but from the explanation in the manual that seems to apply to sneaking troops, not commanders.

I don't think it explicitly states each commander (and any squads he commands) are dealt with separately, but it is implied.

And I know I've seen only one of several scouts get caught.

I'd guess it's one patrol roll compared to a sneak roll for each commander. This produces reasonable results in normal conditions when the chances are decent, but when a really good open ended roll is required, you'll either catch none or all.

[Meglobob]

thejeff said:
Army size, yes, but from the explanation in the manual that seems to apply to sneaking troops, not commanders.

I don't think it explicitly states each commander (and any squads he commands) are dealt with separately, but it is implied.

Implied and it is actually the case. 5 spies have a seperate check to be caught. When all of yours got caught they must have all failed there seperate checks, producing just 1 battle. I have had several occassions when 1/5 or 2/5 have been caught by patrollers but the rest escaped detection.

Even a scout, effectively has +40 on the die roll to avoid detection (this is default stealth), a bard has +70 has he has a further +30 bonus. Every troop you lead without a large plus to stealth themselves gives you -1. So a scout for example with a command magic item leading 40 wolves would have +0 stealth and would be easily detected by PD/patrols.

[thejeff]

I don't buy it. I'll check the numbers again tonight, but this was 4 spies (+20 Stealth) with 150 unrest. The odds were against even one getting caught. All 4 in a single turn is really pushing the odds. It happened once before in the same game, and those were the only times any of my spies were caught there.


And they did produce 4 separate battles.

[Meglobob]

thejeff said:
And they did produce 4 separate battles.

This confirms each one was detected seperatly.

I believe patrolling creates 2 seperate checks, 1 to reduce unrest and another to detect stealth units. High unrest adds hugely however to avoid detection, but as I have said before there are so many random rolls in Dom3, you are bound to get extemely unlucky every now and again.

Abit like I fumbled with a -700+ fumble that time in Middle-Earth...

[mivayan]

thejeff said:
The second time I already had roughly 150 unrest there. He had the standard capital 25 PD and judging from the troops that attacked my poor spies another 60 or so patrolling. With the penalty from unrest his chances should have been slim, but he caught all 4 spies.

Is the roll only made once for patrolling, so if he got a good open-ended roll all stealthy units are likely to be caught?

Perhaps the ai only patrolls once now and then.

Manuals formula for stealth strength: 40 + 20 (spy's stealth bonus) = 60
Destealth strength: 60 (Sum of destealth strength of patrollers, about 60 guys, probably without bonuses or fly) - 50 (unrest /2, capped at unrest100) + 16 (for province defence of 25, assuming the ai never raised it) = 35.

The spy is found if 35 + 2d25 (open ended) > 60 + 2d25 (open ended)

Catching all four at once is a bit lucky but nowhere near requiring the open-ended part of the die rolls.

[Ironhawk]

How are you getting 2d25? I thought all dominions randomness rolls were 2d6 OE.