Devs somewhere?

[Beorne]

I've not said I'd like D3 become open, I've only said a large base testing should not been wasted.

[Edi]

It isn't being ignored and wasted, but there are always problems with large numbers of people. The main problem is that a lot of the time people will simply not think enough before they post, they will not go back and look whether what they want to say has been posted and they have shown a complete disregard for instructions on how to conduct themselves so that things will stay organized.

That's what happened to the bug thread. Time and again, there were requests to not report things that had already been reported. Time and again there were requests to post separate threads for bugs and then linking them from the bug thread so that the discussions stay elsewhere. Time and again people have reported bugs without testing them thoroughly or reading the manual and understanding the mechanics of the game.

I know I contributed some bug thread posts where I engaged in discussion but most of that was in order to squash sidetracks that belonged elsewhere. But the bottom line is that self-policing doesn't work beyond roughly a dozen people.

So, if there is to be an organized system for a large user base contributing, it needs ruthless, tyrannical, iron-fisted management with somebody being the top dog and calling the shots or at least setting procedure and then enforcing it harshly.

If we get somebody to compile a shortlist of bugs and then someone like Rasit managing it e.g. via an external website, it could work. It might also help the beta testers as a group and even shorten the patch cycle for some things.

But that also means that instead of just wringing their hands about it, those who want to see something done must roll up their sleeves and get cracking instead of waiting for someone else to do all the work. To make a point, the Weapons and Armor DB I posted two weeks ago has seen 219 downloads as of this post. That thing didn't exactly compile itself while I was looking the other way.

There are already quite the profusion of mods out there and I imagine most modders here are among those who downloaded it and are putting it to good use improving their own projects, which the DB was actually intended for.

With the DB project under way and actually much nearer to the end than the beginning, I'm not going to take more on my shoulders since I'd actually like to get to PLAY Dom3 at some point too. So the bug shortlist is going to have to be somebody else's project if anyone feels like contributing. If you look at people like Jack Trowell and Ballbarian, they've projects of their own that are going to help everyone in the community. It's the kind of stuff I couldn't do to save my life and I'm suitably impressed with both their dedication and work ethic in this. There's real, tangible results instead of just hot air.

JK and KO have done a lot and then some for us and are actually fairly accessible as developers of any given game go. I would love to see more of them here, but they have priorities such as work, their own lives and friends too. So give it time. We just had one patch so let them have some rest.

I guess this turned into something of a rant, but it's something I have to say because from where I'm standing, there's too much grumbling and complaining and too little effort.

Edi

[danm]

Edi said: people will simply not think enough before they post, they will not go back and look whether what they want to say has been posted and they have shown a complete disregard for instructions on how to conduct themselves so that things will stay organized.

oddly enough, this is as true of professional testers as it is of the public at large

As a long time test lead, I could show your bugs in our tracking database that would make your eyes bleed. (and not in a good way)

I've been pretty darn happy with what the devs have chosen to fix in the patches so far, and the overall quality of Dom3. There's plenty of stuff I'd like to see done, but most of what I want are feature requests, not actual bugs.

Sure, the bug thread as it stands is pretty darn unwieldly, but at least it does provide a central place to dump issues that stands a better chance of being summarized into something the devs might see than a random thread buried pretender-knows-where by the time the deves DO decide to check in )

Mostly i'm just saying that we shouldnt discourage people from posting their issues there, but we should ENcourage someone to go in and attempt to summarize that monstrosity someday (notit!)

[Gandalf Parker]

danm said:
I've been pretty darn happy with what the devs have chosen to fix in the patches so far, and the overall quality of Dom3. There's plenty of stuff I'd like to see done, but most of what I want are feature requests, not actual bugs.

Thats another big problem with the "bug" list in my opinion. People who cant quite see the difference between a bug and them wanting the game to play differently.

It would be much easier if the list was compressed to allow the devs to spot things they consider to be bugs and things they can work on.

[llamabeast]

*Agrees with everything Edi said*