Superheroes dominating Dominions 3 ?

calmon · #1 February 23rd, 2007, 05:43 AM

I agree with shovah, sure it depends on game length, game rules, etc. but i normally not go with death 3 and i choose growth 3 as often as i can, even without big old age problems.
In longer games there is a real difference between a 40.000 populated home province (and all other provinces in same way) or just 20.000 on turn 50.

KissBlade · #2 February 23rd, 2007, 05:53 AM

More often than not, by turn 100, you're swimming in pools of gold already. Furthermore by then, it is gems that determine the game not gold. If you're not, then chances are you're already behind in your empire growth compared to others (most likely because you missed out on the extra points) Also your cap does not go down to 5-6K in 100 turns even with death 3. Not to mention, I've patrolled my cap down to 5-6K with full death scales and won games easily because of the jump in early-mid game it provided me. Granted those games were duels, I still find death scales preferable simply because those points need to come from somewhere to pay for my other goodies. To say Growth gives you benefits over death isn't a good argument since that's an obvious statement. However Growth 3 over death 3 is taking out 240 points that you're not spending in OTHER areas. Your turn 50 isn't going to matter when you're in a MP game and you're wedged into a small corner because your build doesn't factor in an early game.

calmon · #3 February 23rd, 2007, 06:20 AM

Gems are very important in late game. Nevertheless normally you can't 'swim enough' in gold. A nation with very good non-capital mages and lots of castles build 20-30 national mages a turn in late game.

Growth is clearly an middle/late game invest but there also possibilies to improve your early game too.

However what i mean to say is that death 3 is good but its not a no-brainer.
The nearly no-brainer for me is sloth 3
I would always go for sloth 3 before death 3 with most of the nations (even the resource haevy nations, just build a good combat pretender here).

Gandalf Parker · #4 February 23rd, 2007, 11:43 AM

It also depends on if you are combining those scales with a dominion push, or if you are allowing it to affect only the capital area while trying to mostly operate outside of your dominion.

KissBlade · #5 February 23rd, 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

calmon said:
Gems are very important in late game. Nevertheless normally you can't 'swim enough' in gold. A nation with very good non-capital mages and lots of castles build 20-30 national mages a turn in late game.

Growth is clearly an middle/late game invest but there also possibilies to improve your early game too.

However what i mean to say is that death 3 is good but its not a no-brainer.
The nearly no-brainer for me is sloth 3
I would always go for sloth 3 before death 3 with most of the nations (even the resource haevy nations, just build a good combat pretender here).

I don't mind sloth 3 as much as death 3. Any nation can get away with sloth 3 as you said. This for me is "balanced" since basically all players start with the same situation. Death 3 I mind because it hampers old age nations way more than non old age nations. I guess a better way to put this would be, I dislike the scale because some nations don't have the "choice" to take it while others do. This to me is the imbalance.

Edi · #6 February 23rd, 2007, 01:45 PM

That's a frankly ridiculous notion. If every nation was supposed to be able to use the exact same things, then they might as well have the same units too.

A nation that can't tale Death 3 can take some other negative scale at 3 and it will hamper them less. Anyone who takes death scales deserves everything evil and bad that comes from it. I only play large maps and long games anyway, and death 3 in those tends to be just a protracted suicide.

There is also the matter that some nations just suit some people's play style far better than others. I get fairly good results with Ulm, Abysia and a couple of others and I absolutely, positively suck when playing some others because they don't fit me or I don't fit them.

Edi

KissBlade · #7 February 23rd, 2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Edi said:
That's a frankly ridiculous notion. If every nation was supposed to be able to use the exact same things, then they might as well have the same units too.

A nation that can't tale Death 3 can take some other negative scale at 3 and it will hamper them less. Anyone who takes death scales deserves everything evil and bad that comes from it. I only play large maps and long games anyway, and death 3 in those tends to be just a protracted suicide.

There is also the matter that some nations just suit some people's play style far better than others. I get fairly good results with Ulm, Abysia and a couple of others and I absolutely, positively suck when playing some others because they don't fit me or I don't fit them.

Edi

I'll have to disagree with you then. Though if I recall you're the one who plays the crazy Faerun sized games? In which case, I suppose then I'll go growth over death. But those super huge games rarely finds players that can hold that attention span from my experience. In more modestly sized games decided around turn 80-100, I just don't find the death scale holding me back that much. (unless I have old age mages of course)

Also I'm not sure I get the point of your first statement. How does "all nations should be able to get away with same scales" factor into "all nations might as well have same units"?

Edi · #8 February 23rd, 2007, 02:15 PM

I don't mind having some handicaps for different nations scale-wise, for me it doesn't matter that much. Preferences vary, I suppose. I'd be unlikely to take death even in small games, I dislike it that much.

I suppose the same units things could be construed as a slippery slope, but it's what comes to my mind first when I hear people going "I can do A with nation 1, therefore I should also be able to do A with nations 2...13547 as well."

Edi

merlinme · #9 February 23rd, 2007, 02:19 PM

I agree with Edi on this one, if all nations were able to take the same scales, then if there was one best scale strategy for one nation, it would be the best scale strategy for all nations; i.e. no variation. Which would take a lot of the fun out of the game.

It's not as bad as them all having the same units, but it's still about how much variation in play you get from playing different nations.

Archonsod · #10 February 24th, 2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

KissBlade said:
Death 3 I mind because it hampers old age nations way more than non old age nations. I guess a better way to put this would be, I dislike the scale because some nations don't have the "choice" to take it while others do. This to me is the imbalance.

Imbalance? I guess it depends on your faction. You could also complain that certain nations recieve no benefit from taking Growth 3 or Order 3. Every nation has it's own sweet spot in terms of domain benefits or tolerances.
As for Death being a no brainer, it most definitely depends on the faction your playing and how you use it. There is a disadvantage, in that a nations hero's and troops will be artificially limited in terms of experience advancement. It's arguable that the ability to have effectively immortal mages and commanders, boosted by a HoF bonus, is quite an advantage to not taking Death.