Is it just me or is Hellheim troops way to strong?

[lch]

General_Jah said:
Perhaps casters are only good late game and I just rushed to them real early.. i dont know... my strategy was to crank out non stop my eagle kings so i could cruise around nuking armies but it didn't work out when I started running into these huge 200-300 unit armies, especially when they were controlled by Hellheim and Vanheim

A-Ha! Please don't forget that the AI gets more money and resources in higher AI levels than normal. If you're fighting a hard or impossible AI, then no wonder that he can spam Helhirdings and Vans and run you over with those. A MP gamer would not be able to do that. Recruiting Helhirdings is the only option for Helheim, though, as all the other units are merely chaff...

KissBlade said:
Between flying Dis + Valk raiders with sailing helherdlings, it's a toughie for most nations.

Helheim doesn't sail!?

[mathusalem]

Helheim doesn't sail

[KissBlade]

Oops, yes I meant STEALTHY XD. Mind bargled.

[Sombre]

Aren't these overpowered nations somewhat toned down in the Conceptual Balance Mod?

[Morkilus]

Their cost was increased. The veteran players don't seem to think it's a problem. In my Helheim MP game, I was able to expand pretty quickly, but the Helhirdings are quite the liability because of their cost when having to face the right kind of army: in this case, a huge number of Wind Guided Warrior Maidens. The hail of arrows is usually enough to pop the glamour, and then the Helhirdings fall as fast as any other heavy cavalry. I've pretty much decided they aren't that great as a regular troop; you're better off just using them against indies and as raiders as KissBlade suggested.

[quantum_mechani]

Sombre said:
Aren't these overpowered nations somewhat toned down in the Conceptual Balance Mod?

Yes they are, and in a very simple way that I don't see why Illwinter would find unthematic. Simply upped costs for glamour troops, and in the case of Helhiem capital only svartalfs.

[Morkilus]

quantum_mechani said:

Yes they are, and in a very simple way that I don't see why Illwinter would find unthematic. Simply upped costs for glamour troops, and in the case of Helhiem capital only svartalfs.

Also, resource cost of Light Weight Scale Mail was almost doubled, which hits the Hangadrotts at least.

[Kuritza]

Same applies to middle age vanheim, by the way. They have same dual-blessable sacreds, which completely decimate any PD and cannot be caught. Throw in commanders which can reach defence 30 - in my test games, three dual-blessed van commanders with some simple items crafted with construction level 4 were killing a fully equipped Sea King troll SC (without casualties, of course).

Lightining doesnt kill vans, frozen heart is a lvl6 spell and it doesnt kill vans too unless you use powerful mages.
On top of it einheres are one of the strongest infantry units in the middle age.
I simply dont know how to stop a dual-blessed vanheim, it's got no weaknesses. I'd suggest giving non-commander vans 10 hitpoints and removing glamour defense bonus (mirror image is enough, really).

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont think the numbers are quite that unanimous (not that it would matter even if it were). And in case you didnt, put me in that othr group

I think that threads like this collect people who agree with it so I wouldnt measure the responses that way. Plus you can always write off new players (no offense meant to anyone) but it seems that every nation they try during the learning curve ends up striking them as a problem because the balance is in the next nation they try.

Remember that in this game, the balance isnt between each nation. Its more of a rock-paper-scissors balance. As long as there is a nation which can beat a nation, then there is balance. We might not like it but it aint broke.

[StrictlyRockers]

I am playing in my first MP game, and I got Vanheim.

I have never played Vanheim before. So I am reading this thread for advice, and I am also playing a SP game of the scenario and the mod we are using with all of the other players replaced by Impossible AI.

We are using the Dawn of Dominions map. The other players are:
Arcoscephale
Agartha
C'tis
Oceania
Ulm
Sauromatia
Kailasa
Ermor
Vanheim
Caelum
Marverni
Helheim

I am looking for advice on force composition and structure. Should I use lots of small units and spread them out to avoid area of effect damage spells? At four or less units per squad they get a morale penalty, right? So maybe squads of 6-8 bad guy Vanheims per?

Should they charge in right from the start? I think so. I have no missle troops to purchase of any sort. So unless I can recruit some bowmen, I am at a disadvantage at range.

I can't really go into detail about what my pretender looks like. I suppose I could because I don't expect to win this one, and I do want to learn as much as possible from this first MP game.

Does anyone have some viable Vanheim strategies that they could pass on? Thanks! They are greatly appreciated.