MA Pangaea-best starting troops?

[Gandalf Parker]

Some great tactics are available for using Pans. Especially with Black Heart.

[Xietor]

There is no doubt the white centaurs are the best, the question is are they worth 2 armored centaurs since they cost almost twice as much? Especially if you have a weak bless.

[Xietor]

I have to disagree on the war minotaur. They have 18 protection and a lot hps, so they do not go quietly. Also, you claim they get exhausted and sit there.

I usually use war minotaurs in packs of at least 10. So they cannot be picked on. Trampling causes enemy to flee in many cases, and my army is not made up mainly of war minotaurs, but hoplites and longbows. So the enemy has plenty to worry about besides the war minotaurs.

The minotaurs do not have a low attack because they have berserk 5, which allows for a good attack and it hurts a lot. They are particularly useful against elephants, as their size allows them to survive longer, they do not retreat, and a couple hits of low defense elephants will kill them. A group of war minotaurs is also my troop of choice to charge a castle. They trample through the logjam at the gate and do not retreat.

Centaur warriors are vulnerable to ranged troops with their low protection. While they certainly have their uses, you can see a pack of them vanish after a volley from ulm crossbowmen. So in most cases, i like the 19 armor centaurs for the same price. While they do not have berserk, they have high defense and good morale.

I am certainly not an expert on Pangaea, and there are many ways to play them. But I prefer the gorgon + armored troops path. Going the armored route, they are Ulm, but have, trampling units, flying scouts, better infantry because of more hps, defense, recuperation, morale, magic resistance.

[Teraswaerto]

11 morale is good?

Enemy archers can be countered by harpies, and arbalests are not particularly terrifying. Longbows or Blade Wind would have me worried though.

[Xietor]

I do not carry harpies in my army, as they die too quick. Enemy archers are dealt with by my centaur longbows and my armored cavalry units.

You got me on the 11 morale. It is above average, but not good. But they rarely retreat. Why? because they get a divine boost to 13, and with recuperation and armor, they live a long time resulting in a star or 2 experience which also boosts heir morale.

I am not bashing your warriors or your play style. Just giving my preference.

[Shovah32]

If you want to keep your harpies for when you need to use them set them to guard a commander who is placed at the back of the battlefield then, if your going to fight alot of archers, take some of them off guard duty.

[Xietor]

In the game i am presently playing, in the winter of 1st year, with 3 order, 2 prod, 1 growth, 2 heat, as the scales, i have great income, 246 resources, and i can buy 10.5 hoplites a turn, or 7.5 cataphracts, or 8 war minotaurs. That is quite a bit of armor to throw at my nearest neighbor, who happens to be Ulm.

And my get out of jail card(gorgon with5 e 4 n 3 a)will be available soon. The air magic will insure no untimely demise to arbalests.

[Xietor]

Though it is rare, if you get the harpy hero, she generates harpies, so that is sweet! She travels with my main army, but i take no luck so she does not appear often.

[Sorlakind]

Xietor said:
I have to disagree on the war minotaur. They have 18 protection and a lot hps, so they do not go quietly. Also, you claim they get exhausted and sit there.

I usually use war minotaurs in packs of at least 10. So they cannot be picked on. Trampling causes enemy to flee in many cases, and my army is not made up mainly of war minotaurs, but hoplites and longbows. So the enemy has plenty to worry about besides the war minotaurs.

The minotaurs do not have a low attack because they have berserk 5, which allows for a good attack and it hurts a lot. They are particularly useful against elephants, as their size allows them to survive longer, they do not retreat, and a couple hits of low defense elephants will kill them. A group of war minotaurs is also my troop of choice to charge a castle. They trample through the logjam at the gate and do not retreat.

Centaur warriors are vulnerable to ranged troops with their low protection. While they certainly have their uses, you can see a pack of them vanish after a volley from ulm crossbowmen. So in most cases, i like the 19 armor centaurs for the same price. While they do not have berserk, they have high defense and good morale.

I am certainly not an expert on Pangaea, and there are many ways to play them. But I prefer the gorgon + armored troops path. Going the armored route, they are Ulm, but have, trampling units, flying scouts, better infantry because of more hps, defense, recuperation, morale, magic resistance.

There are surely many ways to play Pangaea, and if this strategy works out for you, great. I will just add the following points.

1. The Gorgon is a great SC pretenter, surely one of the best available. But just getting Air 1 on him is 80 points extra, the price of 2 positive scales.

2. You are playing Pangaea like it was Ulm. Sure, the hoplites and cataphracts have higher protection and that can be nice. But neither are stealthy and hoplites have strat move 1 (2 for the cataphracts) so, for higher protection, you lose stealth, berserkng (= they rout) and mobility and the design points for paying production scales. Is this worth it? Protection eventually loses importance when magic starts ruling the battlefield, stealth, berserking, mobility, etc. *never* go obsolete.

3. Centaur warrior have low prot, sure. Having >20 they can take the occasional arrow hit (and having recup will eventually heal afflictions) besides they go berserk (never rout and higher prot). And there are ways to boost their protection. And why would a volley of crossbowman be especially deadly? XBows half the protection, but CW have little protection to begin with!! so what's the worry? If anything, their low rate of fire is better for Pangaea. And remember, defence means nothing against missile fire, while having a shield does (and CW do have a shield).

4. Kithaironic lions instead of Vine ogres? For *6N* you get *1* lion instead of 2 vine ogres for 2N (with ivy crowns - better ratios with treelord staff and/or ivy kings). And what have kithaironic lions better than Vine Ogres? protection and higher mr. Everything else is more or less the same, and they can rout. And Vine Ogres are poison resistant so you can pull some deadly poison combos. Plus you need a pan to summon them, while for vine ogres a boosted nature mage or an ivy king does the job. Oh according to the manual a Kithaironic Lion is also a magic being.


As Aleph mentioned another very good pretender for Pangaea is, IMHO, the mother of monsters. Not only you get lamias galore from mid-game onwards, but since it is 20 extra points for extra magic path she can add a much needed magical versatility to Pangaea. Being naturally an ND mage, she can also cast the national summons, etc.

[Xietor]

Good points all. The lions offer a good troops to use as calvary, they do require magic leadership, but you get 1 per summon so getting more than a pan can lead happens seldom.

What do you spend your extra points on exactly? I have max order 2 prod 1 growth even with the 3 air and 6 dominion. And I sleep the gorgon, do not imprison her as she is often needed by me early on, but i do not need her right off because i like to get 4 construction researched before sending her into battle solo.

I have excellent research and production with my scales. I do take 2 heat, but with 3 order 2 prod 1 growth my income is still very good. When I take another pretender's castle early in the game, with the 2 production i can crank out huge armies of hoplites, cataphracts, and war minos.

I still have the option the use other units, when i do want to use a stealth army. But if stealth was my theme, id likely use the ghost king, give him a bit fire magic so he could lead bigger armies.

Holpites do break, but if they do, i am likely going to lose the battle anyway. My army usually has about 50 hoplites up front. 40 centaur long bows focusing on enemy archers. 10-20 cataphracts going for enemy archers, and 10-20 war minotaurs starting behind the hoplites, so they break the enemies initial charge and then move in.

Hoplites hold their own even against acrosaphale's hoplites.
they do not have that high morale, but they have good protection coupled with good hps and defense. Most infantry with 16 protection do not have that 14 defense the Pangaea hoplites have.

Of course i have a pan or 2 buffing the armies and dryads doing sermon courage.

By mid game, i will have some bane lords and sleepers in the army. Sleepers help prevent routing, and with a couple nature artifacts, can do well in melee battle. The bane lords can be devastating with artifacts, and they of course do not rout. A bargain for the cheap cost!