Late Era - Started

WSzaboPeter · #1 March 19th, 2007, 02:52 PM

Well I agreed a NON AGGRESSION pact. If I consider this as an aggression, then you violated the pact, since it was not specified what can be considered aggression.

Jazzepi · #2 March 19th, 2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

WSzaboPeter said:
Well I agreed a NON AGGRESSION pact. If I consider this as an aggression, then you violated the pact, since it was not specified what can be considered aggression.

Non aggression means that you don't invade each other territories. That's the only meaning to it. Otherwise I should be able to invade your fortress because it's right on my border. That's fairly aggressive, building up an army directly on an allies' border.

Jazzepi

Methel · #3 March 19th, 2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Jazzepi said:

. Otherwise I should be able to invade your fortress because it's right on my border. That's fairly aggressive, building up an army directly on an allies' border.

Jazzepi

Think your kinda shooting your own cause in the foot here jazzepi

How about you strike a fair bargain, he gets the province bordering his capital and you get some compensation, either in territory or otherwise.

Jazzepi · #4 March 19th, 2007, 05:08 PM

My point is that "I get to arbitrarily decide what is aggressive" is ridiculous, and not the meaning of a NAP (Non-Aggression Pact). If he gets to just randomly decide that my expansion into neutral territory nearby his capital (lets make this clear, I don't even know where his capital is, I can't even see it on my map even with the conquered provinces). Then I should be able to be equally random/arbitrary in what I decide to be aggressive.

If he doesn't like what happened after he signed a pact, that's just *too bad*. This is a competitive game. I had to lose troops, and spend time/effort expanding into those territories. It's unfortunate for him that they happened to be nearby (not even adjacent) to his capital, which I can't see on the minimap. Honestly, there is plenty of territory west of me I *could* have expanded into just as easily. I simply picked east because if was a convenience to shore up my territory along a mountain range.

Now he suddenly wants a free ride into those territories just because of the fact that they're two spaces away from his capital? How many proviences are two spaces away from *my* capital? I counted, just to make my point: 15 provinces surround my capital 2 movements out. I think it's ludicrous to purport that somehow during a NAP I can lay claim to all of those territories without specifically stating it.

I would also like for Kojusoki to push back the turn hosting another 24 hours, or at least until this gets decided. I'm 99% positive if the turn hosts I'm going to come back to find the territory I had invaded.

Jazzepi

WSzaboPeter · #5 March 19th, 2007, 05:29 PM

Okay. Please take a look at this picture and see how Jazzepi interprets truth.

Quote:

I would also like for Kojusoki to push back the turn hosting another 24 hours, or at least until this gets decided. I'm 99% positive if the turn hosts I'm going to come back to find the territory I had invaded.

I'm really sorry, but you would like to STOP other players game simply to solve something like a territory dispute? That is way unfair to other players.

I did not gave any attack orders this turn, but I think next turn I will set myself to AI. My forces are superior, and the only thing that keeps me from crushing you is the fact that I always obey the rules of the games, and for some reason this game had a rule that
someone can hide between a non agression pact and then invade... We both know that you are planning an offensive, maybe building a fort near my capital in this very minute, and I can't do a thing. That's why I will quit this game if this will not be solved.

Methel · #6 March 19th, 2007, 05:34 PM

Hmm, do any of those actually allow direct movement into your capital? If not then I'm switching sides to jazzepi's.

WSzaboPeter · #7 March 19th, 2007, 05:37 PM

Okay, let's stop this discussion before it is converted to a flame. I told all I wanted to tell, and waiting for an answer. That's all.

Jazzepi, one more question: When does this non aggression pact thing ends? I would like to know the exact turn number please.

Jazzepi · #8 March 20th, 2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

WSzaboPeter said:
Okay. Please take a look at this picture and see how Jazzepi interprets truth.

Quote:

I would also like for Kojusoki to push back the turn hosting another 24 hours, or at least until this gets decided. I'm 99% positive if the turn hosts I'm going to come back to find the territory I had invaded.

I'm really sorry, but you would like to STOP other players game simply to solve something like a territory dispute? That is way unfair to other players.

I did not gave any attack orders this turn, but I think next turn I will set myself to AI. My forces are superior, and the only thing that keeps me from crushing you is the fact that I always obey the rules of the games, and for some reason this game had a rule that
someone can hide between a non agression pact and then invade... We both know that you are planning an offensive, maybe building a fort near my capital in this very minute, and I can't do a thing. That's why I will quit this game if this will not be solved.

First off, you should have never proposed a pact if you didn't understand the consequences of it which were that you aren't allowed to attack me if I don't invade your provinces. Now, I invaded some territory nearby yours that was neutral, and then you accuse me of "hiding behind a non-aggression pact". Well obviously, the point of a non aggression pact is that I can "hide behind it", just like you can "hide behind it". Right now the majority of my forces aren't anywhere near your border, they're out expanding in other places.

Secondly, everyone is *always* planning an offensive. If you aren't eventually planning on backstabbing your partners, you aren't playing to win. Sometime, in the future, because of the nature of the game you're going to have to attack people that were previously allies. I don't understand why you seem so surprised by this.

Third, and last, if you look at the above picture you can see a mountain range clearly between the neutral province I captured from neutrals and his capital. No province that I control, or captured, is next door to his capital. I could not see his capital when I took them, and did not know it was there. While the provinces that I hold are in a good strategic position, that's part of the reason I took them! So complaining that they put you in a bad position isn't a good point to argue why I shouldn't be allowed to have them!

I would just like to put a reminder out there that this is just a game! Being sneaky during diplomacy is part of the game, but I firmly believe that nothing I did was even a stretch of the NAP I signed in good faith.

Jazzepi