Thermal imaging

[Dimitry]

2 Don

You have no idea if that is applicable either currently, 10 years ago, 20 years ago or 30 years ago. It's just a guess based on a couple of sources, one being an old game,

So maybe you have? No you don't.
Because I don't just explaining my point of view, I'm veryfying it by links and examples. And you don't. You just make a statement about LRF "a priori".

You are asking for up to a 60% degradation based on your guess of what you suspect it should be based on assumptions and scanty information.

Again, my guesses are supported by links to appropriate documents. The level of degradation is discussion-free.
And what are your statements supported with?

Even IF hard data can be found on this and can be applied it would have to be applied equally for all nations and that is a very serious amount of coding for something that is only hinted at being an issue in written evidence.

I have nothing against the idea that this should be be "applied equally for all nations". At least this is fair.
If TI's and LRF's in game are so hard to be modified, so why are they put in game (as far as I know there are no TI's and LRF's in, for example, Steel Panthers Modern Combat) ?

IMHO the "all-seeing" TI's and unblockable LRF's are seriously unbalancing the game. It's just like to make ONE tank gun for all tank types and then say "it is too hard to modify it for EACH tank".

2 Marcello

Thanks for the advice. I'll try this out.

2 Marec_Tucan

If I'm not mistaken the LRF on Abrams tanks in 1991 was the same as on first batch in the beginning of 1980's No problems with smoke encountered.

Some links as a proof would be great

[DRG]

OK Dimitry, how about this. The upgrade to winSPMBTv3 is all the major coding to MBT we are doing this year. The V3.5 patch that will be released next month has a few code changes for issues we discovered and dealt with while working on WinSPww2v2 but that is all and we will not be adding anything further. Most of what makes up V3.5 is OOB corrections and Icon upgrades and originally neither Andy nor I were even going to start THINKING about that until the fall but you and everyone else are getting it early and then we are both taking time off

Andy and I are the ones you have to convince and I'm telling you that even if you did convince us ( you haven't BTW ) we STILL wouldn't be changing the game code any more than we already have. However your "proof"... "veryfying it by links and examples" consists of one link that provides an example of how specialized Bispectral smoke blocks lasers RF and another that ONLY says... "the laser range finder shall be appropriately degraded due to smoke" but nowhere is there ANYTHING to suggest just what "appropriately" is supposed to represent. The only percentages that have been discussed are the ones YOU presented based on assumptions. No hard evidence at all. Just what *you* think might be appropriate. Right now, *WE* think that the thick smoke that blocks LOS with TI and therefore any range finding is "appropriate" for a game of this scale and we don't have to "prove" anything. YOU are the one with the issues with the way it works now. "We" are quite happy with the way it works now

(QUOTE) "I just think that 50%-60% accuracy reduce will be enough."

But then... you also thought at the start that...

(QUOTE) " in the game - vehicles with thermal imagers are indifferent to smoke.

and that was dead wrong. They are not "indifferent" to smoke if you put down enough smoke and if you cannot see it you cannot lase it and that's the way the game works

Don

[Dimitry]

that is all and we will not be adding anything further

Well, I must say that this is not a suprise for me.

The only percentages that have been discussed are the ones YOU presented based on assumptions. No hard evidence at all. Just what *you* think might be appropriate. Right now, *WE* think that the thick smoke that blocks LOS with TI and therefore any range finding is "appropriate" for a game of this scale and we don't have to "prove" anything. YOU are the one with the issues with the way it works now.

As far as I can see 90% of the game units characteristics are based on someone's assumptions.
And I'm not the only person "with the issues" - there are lot more people, most of them just don't show up on this forum.

Anyway, I'll try to find more, as you say, "hard evidences".

Right now here are the links about ".....The standard smoke grenade that contains a phosphors compound that masks thermal signature of the vehicle to the enemy...."

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

then

http://tech.military.com/equipment/v...rams-tank.html

and some more

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../ground/m1.htm

So the vehicle with TI, discharging this smoke, should become absolutely blind. No thermal imaging or LRF is possible.
As far as I remember, such grenades are the standart equipment for Abrams, Bradleys and those TOW vehicles, such as M901.