Suggestion: LE Ryleh - Dreamlands

TirAsleen · #1 March 28th, 2007, 11:42 AM

Well, yeah, the mages have no problem and commanders, its the the ilithids as regular and national units you recruit in masses, to be sure they do not starve you need bags of wine or similar items and just take a limited number of freespawns with you, the rest just drains upkeep and need to be transferred to a supply poor area to starve and die. Its just a big hassle to do it but needed once you conquered some provinces with a high dominion everywhere, the upkeep will certainly limit your financial power, if you don't change that by any means.

And yes a disband command would be the solution here as well.

So far i read, many players support the idea of a disband command, and it would make many people happy and solve the problems with freespawns concepts.

RonD · #2 March 28th, 2007, 12:37 PM

But freespawns are *supposed* to be a double-edged sword. I guess some players would like for all nations to have only advantages, and no disadvantages, but how could that be possible without having all nations identical?

For some (most?) nations, the disadvantages simply consist of not having the same advantages as other nations. Pretty much everyone seems to accept that, plus or minus people arguing in favor of a few extra advantages for their personal favorite nation. But for some nations, most notably LA R'lyeh (but there are others), some of the disadvantages are "active" disadvantages.

As much as I would like to be able to dismiss the odd random-event militia, having such a command would massively alter the balance of LA R'lyeh. They would become hugely overpowered if freespawns did not eat and were free of upkeep, or if one could use them where it was convenient and simply dismiss them where they are inconvenient.

LA R'lyeh isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. I tried it in a largish MP game (it was my death-3 R'lyeh that SelfishGene subbed for). I really liked the concept, but there was no way I could properly play a large R'lyeh empire and keep my job. So I just won't play that nation anymore. It doesn't make me feel that the game is somehow worth less because there is a nation I would like to play but just cannot - there are lots of nations that don't fit my particular playstyle (I would not want to play LA Ermor, and I never wanted to play undead Ermor in dom2, either). There are still plenty of nations that do fit my preferences. And the game is still much richer for having the current version of LA R'lyeh, available for someone who wants to give it a go.

Graeme Dice · #3 March 28th, 2007, 01:34 PM

Why are the freespawns supposed to have disadvantages other than their near uselessness in combat? It's not as though removing the upkeep on such troops would make the nation overpowered, because you can't use them with any effect against elite troops anyways. I'm currently experiencing zero losses in matches where 60 F9/W9 LA Mictlan Rain warriors fight against 100+ LA R'Lyeh freespawn. It's also not as though people would dismiss the freespawn unless they absolutely had to, as you will need 10 to 1 odds or better to ensure wins when using them.

RonD · #4 March 28th, 2007, 01:48 PM

I did not say that the freespawns are supposed to have disadvantages. I said that the freespawns themselves are a disadvantage of the LA R'lyeh nation.

TirAsleen · #5 March 28th, 2007, 02:36 PM

LE Ermor is a complete different thing. LE Ermor is easy to control in comparission. No upkeep, no supplies needed for your freespawns. You can take as many as you want to make an army or just leave them where they are, its an option for you not a must.

RonD · #6 March 28th, 2007, 02:56 PM

I did not mean to imply that they are the same. I only used Ermor as an example of another nation I do not choose to play. I'm happy to live with the fact that some of the nations do not fit into my prefered playstyle, and I don't see the need to demand that they be changed so they do.

Graeme Dice · #7 March 28th, 2007, 05:32 PM

Why would you think that the freespawn of LA R'Lyeh are supposed to be a disadvantage when they are effectively the only troops you can afford to field?

mivayan · #8 March 28th, 2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Graeme Dice said:
It's not as though removing the upkeep on such troops would make the nation overpowered, because you can't use them with any effect against elite troops anyways.

Well. Meatwalls are always nice if you happen to have battle mages or mindblasters.

If they had no upkeep and didn't eat it'd be like LA ermor without the banishment vulnerability... perhaps their eating is enough to make the difference?

Loren · #9 March 28th, 2007, 10:03 PM

I do agree that dismiss would be a big help but still it would require keeping doing it.

A better solution I think:

1) No aquatic freespawn. They should all be amphibious so you can do something with them once you own the water.

2) The idea of new unit routing that's already been discussed in other threads.

Folket · #10 March 29th, 2007, 05:52 AM

Solution? To what?

LA R'lyeh is not broken. I find them to be a pretty balanced nation I do not see reason to improve on them.

I also agree with Gandalf Parker that R'lyeh is probably more fun if roll playing. You should be happy for each enlightened dreamer that joins in your song.