Indep. Mages

[jutetrea]

Hmm, I saw this pop up then forgot about it, will definitely try out the NI maps. Randomized of course

Enchantresses have been my saving find more-so than any other. I've had bad luck with sorceresses getting old, even more than sages. I did use the onyx (amazon?) sorceress in the last game to kickstart a weak blood economy with a rainbow pretender. Before that, never used em.

Enchantresses are pretty expensive, but worth it for the automated site searching and the 2E + boots blade winds.

[Gandalf Parker]

I would think that it would be more balancing to have some mod that removes the site-based indept mages rather than the poptype recruitable indept mages. The site-based ones tend to be the "worthy" ones. Those would be the random-luck effect on the game that true strategists dislike.

Of course, in my games I tend to increase such things.

[thejeff]

My impression is that many of the rarer site based and maybe some of the rare poptype ones weren't nerfed the way most of the independent mages were.

Hydromancers and the Azure academy mages come to mind, but only because I've seen them recently. Gnomes, maybe?

Paths and pricing seem what I would expect from Dom2, not Dom3.

I wonder if it was intentional, or an oversight?

[Edi]

All poptype recruitable mages have been nerfed to some degree or another. The Jade Amazons most prominently, Onyx, Crystal and Garnet less so, but still somewhat. Druids were chopped from N2 to N1, lizards are unaffected and all the rest are new additions compared to Dom2.

The site based mages are a different matter. Most of them have remained roughly the same as they were, except their random picks have been modified, which in many cases makes them weaker and in some cases makes them stronger. Enchantresses are far stronger due to the changed random system, Sorceresses and some others a bit weaker.

Most indie mages suffer from old age problems right out of the box unless they have nature magic (again, Enchantress FTW) or are some specialty stuff like the Moon Mages (both regular and Elludian). This makes the non-old mages kick that much more backside all over town.

Compared to national mages, who have fairly limited random selection, many of the site mages are more powerful due to what they can bring to the table, more so than was the case in Dom2 in some respects, less so in others.

[Sombre]

Well the idea of the NI maps wasn't so much to preserve strategic balance, more to keep the focus on national troops and to see if it would improve the AI. With NI certain nations play quite differently, since they lack the generic cheap indy troops, or the ability to crank out indy knights and longbows making up for lack of missile and cavalry in their own lineup.

The biggest difference is with the AI though. Now the large number of castles it likes to crank is actually a good strategy since you basically don't get troops without them.

[Kuritza]

Sorceresses are really good, especially for nonastral or astral-1 nations. You can recruit a couple of them, then script one to cast light of the northern star and have them all cast soul slay. Really, really nice.
Or mass them and just have them cast stellar cascades. Air 2 also gives you a mage to cast wind guide.
Lizard shamans can be used for magic dueling - against tien chi mages or gods with low to average astral. 5-6 lizard mages with pearls, scripted for a magic duel, have a good chance of success. Or just curse enemy SCs.
Onyx sorceresses can be scripted for dust to dust. Give them a booster and they are capable of controlling the dead, too.
All shamans can craft boots of rejuvenation, empower one or trade for a booster and they can also craft rings of regeneration and vine shields - very potent items.

Indie mages expand your possibilites greatly, they just require some creativity to be effective.

[UncleYee]

I totally agree with the OP. Indep mages are a complete waste of money. The only reasons you'd ever possibly bother recruiting these bozos would be if:

You need them to branch into a magic path your nation lacks, thus opening up a trillion new strategy options for you.

Or, your best stuff is capital-only, and now you have the option to recruit mages without interrupting the flow of your capital recruiting.

Or, you want more mages to craft more items. Or do more research. Or cast more summons. Or cast more site searches.

Or, the province with the indep mages is nearby, and a castle is farther away.

Or, you want more mages with your armies, for varied casting and/or redundancy just in case.

Or, even if you do have access to A2 in your nation, maybe it's on a 350G flagship mage with 2 (or 3) other paths, and you'd prefer to just buy a much cheaper illusionist if you only need him to cast Air spells.

Or, you think variety is fun.

But other than that and any other reasons I can't think of right now, I don't even know why indep mages are in the game. What a waste.

[Tuidjy]

Uncle Yee is absolutely right... there is no point to indy mages.
Except in the cases he listed. And a few more, but why bother,
they're useless anyway.

I am so ashamed of them, that very often, I assign 50 patrollers
to make sure no player laughs at me when he finds out what I am
building in that castle...