Modding Idea List

HoneyBadger · #1 April 17th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Actually, I'm working on a mod of Brazillian jungle people and frog-creatures.

VedalkenBear · #2 April 17th, 2007, 09:56 PM

I like the idea, Gandalf. I'm more of a refiner and tester of mods than a creator of them. (I have awful art skills.)

About the only one that I did for Dom2 that people seemed to like was the ArcoBlood mod.

As for a Dom3 mod, I'm rather annoyed that there isn't a Heian/'Classical period' Japanese nation. That is, a nation between the Mythical period and the Feudal period. It's a fascinating time period, and I know quite a bit about it. THe main question I have is if there is any way to create a unit that is recruitable everywhere _but_ the capital? You can't really do Heian period without the proto-samurai, but you should have a classically Chinese-style army coming from the capital (think ME Tien Chi) while the outlying lands have the proto-samurai.

Sombre · #3 April 17th, 2007, 09:58 PM

I was planning to do a Vietnam/indochina nation called Dai Gok, for the middle era. Even coded up some units, so we'll see, maybe I'll get that done in the future.

Vedalken: Have you tried out mods here then? All us mod makers are ravenous for feedback ;]

VedalkenBear · #4 April 17th, 2007, 10:06 PM

Most of you, Sombre, I don't think would appreciate my feedback. E.g., if you list something as 'compatible with vanilla', and yet you clearly show little-to-no concept as to the pricing or balancing of units/commanders, it's a bit... odd.

To be positive, I think the Insectoids are very original and fresh, though their sprites seem a bit... big. I thought the Sylvania mod was also quite beautifully done. Seemed a bit limited by its magics, but you can't have everything.

From a speculative standpoint... can anyone name a nation that specializes in Fire/Air? Tien Chi gets a smattering of it, as well as any others that get 'elemental' randoms, but it's quite aggravating that some magic combinations are quite well represented on both the spell side and the mage side, and yet others struggle to find either. (Air and almost anything seems the worst, off the top of my head.)

Sombre · #5 April 17th, 2007, 10:14 PM

Well it's very hard for people to balance to vanilla without the help of playtesters. Modders have less time to actually play the game and aren't as good at balance as people who play a ton of MP.

I can only speak for myself, but if I thought one of my mods was balanced (roughly) to vanilla and you thought there were some clear problems which could be pointed out and had some constructive criticism, however harsh,... well I know I'd really like to hear it.

The 'vanilla balance' bit in the mod list doesn't indicate that the mod has been tested to see if it's balanced against vanilla values, only that the modder intends it to be. With a lack of playtesters and testing time, that can be hard to get right.

So throw in your two cents ;]

Edit: As for fire/air, do you mean in mod nations? I know avernum gets Vahnatai mages that are randomly F2A2, F3A1 or F1A3.

VedalkenBear · #6 April 17th, 2007, 10:21 PM

Mainly it's in the pricing of mages, I've seen. There was _definitely_ a formula followed for it in Dom2, and there is almost certainly one in Dom3 (at least for the base game).

I feel like anything I have to say should be part of a test you should have to take before you're allowed to post a mod. A sample question would be:

1) What should the absolute minimum cost for a mage with a 3 path be? (An alternate form of the question: What is the cheapest mage in Dom3 with a 3 path?)

If you really want my input, I'll oblige you, but I tend towards brutal honesty.

Sombre · #7 April 17th, 2007, 10:31 PM

You sound like you could give some useful input and I know that I'd like to hear it. If you're worried other people will get upset you can just comment on my mods if you like ;]

However I think just referring to 'formula' of costing in Dom3 is a mistake. A mod nation could have very cheap or very expensive mages for a thematic reason without actually being over or underpowered in the game. For example if their starting city is awful, they're going to have a lot less money and resources in the early game. Or they might have very expensive mages but a site giving them a large amount of gold and resources in their start city.

VedalkenBear · #8 April 17th, 2007, 10:44 PM

Well, I look at the vanilla game (which the mods I'm referring to are supposed to fit in with) and I don't see that kind of issue. To take each of your examples:

1) 'Bad' starting castle type.

I believe Niefelheim has a 30 Admin Starting Castle, yes? I don't see them getting cheap mages by way of compensation for it.

2) Expensive Mages but site that makes money

A more intriguing example, yet one that doesn't seem very balanced, since there's no way to _make_ the player use the money from the site on the mages to 'offset'. A better way to do this would be to make two mages, one capital-only and the other not. The non-capital-only mage would just cost more.

And I did not say 'just referring' to formula. It is a guideline. However, you need to know the rules before you can learn when (and how) to break them. The classic example in the vanilla game is the Daughter of Avalon. If you take into account overall utility, she may be the most cost-efficient researcher in the game. (Philosopher is clearly better but is useless for anything besides research, has old age problems, and is capital-only for a nation that has many capital-only commanders.) She is definitely cheaper than 'the formula' called for. However, she's an arguable.

Most of the mods I've seen, the cases aren't even close to 'the formula'. I guess I'll hunt down each mod's thread and point out things.

Gandalf: I believe I have restricted myself in this thread to the mods noted as 'meant for vanilla' which, as Sombre notes, is by modder choice.

Gandalf Parker · #9 April 17th, 2007, 10:33 PM

Lets not debate if a mod is balanced to vanilla or not. There is plenty of range in that term "balanced". If a mod maker had a balanced nation in mind then thats what it should be taggged. If they purposely created a super nation (for AI use) then they will say so. IMHO

Sombre · #10 April 17th, 2007, 10:43 PM

Well I've only marked those in the modlist with a 'yes' for 'balanced for vanilla?' if the modder indicated that they were going for that balance. So it would make sense that those are the only ones worth discussing vanilla balance for.

I haven't seen any super nations designed for the AI apart from 'AI Mictlan' which I made and no-one downloaded. So not sure which mods you're referring to.