Arabs and Carthaginians

[Sombre]

So sort of like that film Cook Off?

[HoneyBadger]

I think I missed that one, who was in it?

[Sandman]

I suggested an undead Carthage a while back. Fire/death, mostly, with fireproof basic undead and the elites including elephants, undead slingers, archers, etc.

DrPraetorious said:
* Hashshasin. A priest/assassin/mage, H1. Capital only, has DN, is crazy bad-***.

I'd just make the hashishim cheaper and available everywhere. Maybe 40 gold, stealth +10 and dual golden daggers (they didn't like poison). Capital-only assassins are seldom worth it.

Magicwise, my preference would be to make a Muslim nation's core magic fire/air. It's vaguely thematic, not taken by any other nation and is a good combination.

For the early era, you get a Persian nation with fire/air/astral and angel summons. In the middle era, it becomes a pure fire/air Arabic nation with djinn and efreet summons, whilst in the late era, it moves to an Ottoman nation with earth/fire/air and powerful Jannissary elites.

[HoneyBadger]

When I think of Zoroastrianism, I think of fire and air, but if I had to pick magic paths for Muslim-themed nations, it would be the same as for Christians and Jews-astral and death. Do any nations take those two paths?

[DrPraetorious]

EA Ermor is obviously meant to be Christian - but their spellcasters are not. Marignon, Pythium and LA Ulm are pretty clearly Christian with Mage/Priests.

"So.... the Manticore is... Jesus?"
"The Manticore is the *third person* in the holy trinity. He's of the same *substance* as Jesus."

But it depends on what we want for our Muslim spell-casters.

Alchemy is an arabic word, so they get Alchemists, who should have more or less the magic powers attributed to sorcerers in Arabic folklore, which tend towards fire, earth and death - but I *could* give them any magic paths I wanted.

I'm also giving them Sufis, who I'm giving magic powers similar to what hindus are given - astral,nature and water. Idea being that these are contemplative and transcendental kinda magics.

Obviously I could go a different route, and give them priest/mages who can work spells duplicating the miracles described in Islamic texts, but that's not the standard treatment.

As for Zoroastrianism, it's pretty clear that they get astral, fire and *water*. You could also make an argument for air and nature, but water is a must-have - Zoroastrianism worship and ritual magic focuses heavily on the purifying powers of water and fire (although they do not, properly speaking, worship either.)

Sandman - available everywhere, two golden daggers, check. 40 gold is kinda cheap for the stats I was gonna give this guy, though - are you suggesting he should have regular assassin stats?

VedalkenBear - Arco does a fine job for Phoenicians and Phillistines (who are greeks anyway,) but a *dismal* job of subbing in for Iranians or Persians. They have hardly any cavalry, and no archers! T'ien Ch'i is a better match for Persia.

[normalphil]

EA Ermor spellcasting is pretty Christian-appropriate for that stage in things, but seeing it depends how you play them because the emphasis is entirely up to you. If you're swimming in bishops and archbishops for your 'mage' presence, you have it. Recruit either a bishop or archbishop every turn you can. Auger Elders, call them gnostics. Stay away from them, or at least use them in extreme moderation, they won't lead to anything good down the road (glyph of irony). The Numina hold-overs are Mithradists (yeah, those were in there). For pretender-god choice, just don't take something that goes that much against your grain. Take a Virtue (personally, I use a dormant Virtue with maxed order and productivity, dom 5, air 3 and astral 5. By no means optimal, but guess what /she's/ there to do...). Take a Sacred Statue, or an oracle. Be sinisterly contrary and take a Moloch or Prince of Death and prove the more rabid sects of protestants right. Take a Divine Emperor and start a splinter-sect; it's pretty much what the Druze did with Islam, why should christianity be exempt. Take a Lich to be /really/ sinister (or respectful, nowhere is it written that you have to play a Lich like an evil-presence).

Failing all that, well; "All hail the great Spider! So sayeth the Spider!". Your mileage may vary.

Personally, I'd like an Apostle-esque mage-smiter hero. Take /that/, Simon you git.

[MaxWilson]

DrPraetorious said:
EA Ermor is obviously meant to be Christian - but their spellcasters are not. Marignon, Pythium and LA Ulm are pretty clearly Christian with Mage/Priests.

"So.... the Manticore is... Jesus?"
"The Manticore is the *third person* in the holy trinity. He's of the same *substance* as Jesus."

Okay, this cracked me up.

-Max

[HoneyBadger]

Maybe it's like those tabloid magazines, where Jesus's face appears on a potato chip? except in this case, Jesus's face just happened to appear on a big winged lion with a scorpion's tail.

Who knows? maybe Elvis and the Great Mother will get together and have that alien baby.

It's a funny old world.

[Sombre]

Obviously the Lich is Jesus - being of great power that dies and rises again.

Actually if you modded Jesus into the game as a pretender, one that claimed to be the son of the Pantokrator,... what would he have?

Obviously the ability to heal people in his province.
A supply bonus (water into wine)
Sailing (walking on water)

What else?

[VedalkenBear]

Praet: I guess I was referring to pre-Roman Mesopotamian cultures? Basically, the stuff that is covered by ME Arco and/or EA C'tis.

And I would _kill_ for a thematically cohesive Fire/Air nation. A recurring 'issue' of mine is that all of the magic combinations are not equally represented.

If Water is an integral part of Zoroastrianism, why not make a ME Caelum mod (which supposedly has those influences) and give them Fire magic? The Eagle Kings may not have died out, etc. etc.

Edit: Also, please be respectful of all religions. It's rather amusing/saddening how often religious tolerance is not equally applied.