OT: Politics

[Teraswaerto]

Archonsod said:

Oh, I doubt Tolkien has anything to do with it. Over here he is probably the epitome of Right Wing. Much as he may have denied it, there are several political themes in his work (such as the scouring of the shire in ROTK - written at a time when socialist/soviet rebellion was a very real danger).
As for his black & white viewpoint, I've seen that been put down to Catholicism (he's less subtle than CS Lewis, but the basic moral structure is similar).

You are wrong. Also, less subtle than C.S. "Aslan is Jesus!!!" Lewis?

[Archonsod]

Meant to say "more subtle". I blame Eurovision

[HoneyBadger]

Aslan was a big lion who talked.

Some people see Jesus' face in potato chips. Now I realize that it was C.S. Lewis's point that Aslan was supposed to be Jesus, but maybe the potato chip company is really religious too.

It's all in how you interpret these things.

[HoneyBadger]

Do we have to get in to religion in the politics thread?

[Gandalf Parker]

I would have said "in most countries, yes".
But lately its been the US also so... yes

[Saxon]

Tolkein also created entire functional languages for the books, he was a professional linguist and took it all pretty seriously. As for Dr. Suess, with a new child in my life, I am getting to have a second look at them. Kids books yes, but with moral messages in them.

[Saxon]

Tolkien should be looked at in a different light that right vs. left. He is an early environmentalist arguing with industrialism. He grew up in rural South Africa and later moved to a heavily industrialized England. From the rolling and wild plains of Orange Free State to the heart of the industrial world.

This is reflecting in his work and taken a step farther in the movies. Industrial orc hatched in factories, cutting the trees and inspiring the attack of the Ents. Noble Shirefolk getting their peaceful rural ways upset by men. The age of magic elves passing and dirty men with their mechanical and mundane ways coming.

Interestingly, there are lots of parallels to early green movements in Germany in the 20’s and 30’s and, if we really want to talk politics, how those ideals and followers got pulled in and cooped by the Nazi movement. Up to today, the Greens in Germany have to be very careful about what images they use, as many of the traditional Green symbols were cooped by the Nazis. This is both for political and legal reasons, and I am sure many have you have seen various forum rules about Nazi imagery. Ideas of the Volk, connection to the earth and organic farming were all mixed together at the time.

I do rush to point out that the Greens in Germany have worked very hard to distance themselves from this past and I am in no way suggesting they hold those ideals today. The Red Green coalition in Germany is a very long way from the past.

In any case, looking at Tolkien developing his ideals in the pre war world, where the Greens were still young, but present, may give a different and, I would suggest, deeper view of his political thought.

[Gandalf Parker]

Thats interesting. I had always heard that the series was bedtime stories for his kids that just kept getting more and more elaborate as they grew older. And that trying to read hidden meanings into it was like looking for real world connotations in Dr Seuss.

[Morkilus]

Gandalf Parker said:
And that trying to read hidden meanings into it was like looking for real world connotations in Dr Seuss.

Yeah, The Lorax and the Horton books were completely just silly little books.

[thejeff]

The Hobbit was a bedtime story for his kids that wound up tying itself into the mythology he'd been working on for years.
The mythology grew, at least partly, as background for the languages he invented, being primarily a linguist.

I wouldn't say hidden messages, he despised allegory and such things, but that doesn't mean there isn't meaning behind the surface. The Lord of the Rings is deeply informed by his Catholic faith, without being overtly religious, a trick not that often pulled off.

Even more so in the Silmarillion mythology. For example, the origin of the orcs is left unclear because he kept debating with himself whether they had free will and were thus redeemable.