Request for strategy: Late game tips

[Shovah32]

Sorry for not being constructive but (I)n (M)y (H)onest (O)pinion opinion dosnt really work Mr Parker.

[jutetrea]

marketing fairness and willingness to micromanage may be a definite factor. Some folks just don't want to deal with it.

I think the 62 game is going to be crazy no matter what. My main questions concern this game, but also what might apply to other late game strategies. The info on globals is definitely interesting, and I'm curious how much unit trading goes on. Seems the easiest, especially early is to trade provinces that produce indys.

How about perceived threat vs real threat. I've asked the question before because I think its a huge part, but have gotten some good responses so want to see if there's more info to be had.

Is it ever good to curtail research, site searching or expansion for the cause of portraying yourself weaker then you are? Leave indy's within borders unconquered, site search slowly even though quicker searching allows better accumulation, purposely stop recruiting mages to curtail research, stop recruiting troops to keep the army #'s in check, etc? I know this is related to score graph games primarily.. but it also can be taken as what you can say during negotiations, etc.

[MaxWilson]

General principles of negotiation say it is better to appear strong than weak. However, it's bad to appear DANGEROUS. Some people are so terrified of Niefel Giants that they won't rest until Niefelheim is extinct. I suspect that e.g. Marverni can get away with pulling ahead on the research graph where LA R'lyeh could not. You might try combining an appearance of strength with NAPs with your weaker neighbors; assure them that you'll be going after somebody else if they'll consent to support you with some minor tribute. Paradoxically, paying tribute could make them feel safer (as long as it's cheap) because it gives you a reason to want them around. If you phrase it nicely enough they might even think you're spearheading an alliance.

-Maximilian

Edit: another way to make people feel threatened is to keep them in the dark. Conversely, it might be useful to provide strategic information to your tributaries when you extort money from them. "Player X has 300 Z units parked in provinces A, B, and C. I want to build 200 Ys to attack him. I need an extra 200 gold from you to make this work." If you've done things right they'll be eager to be helpful as long as you can protect them from retaliation by X. If you wanted to you could also lie about how many units are involved to make yourself look bigger and tougher to your tributaries. Of course I would never condone outright lying but maybe Yublub the Old Old One, Dweller in Everlasting Burnings has a different perspective on the matter.

[vfb]

MaxWilson said:
Marverni can get away with pulling ahead on the research graph where LA R'lyeh could not.
-Maximilian

Excellent point Max. Marverni is your friend, and they should be allowed to do their harmless research in peace.

[Baalz]

Jutetrea, I've found its much more often the case that it's better to appear powerful than to appear weak. Unless you're in first (possibly second) place by a good bit, you're more likely to be ganged up on because two or more of your neighbors think that you'll be easy pickings to their combined forces. True, you don't want to shoot out way ahead of everybody else unless you're ready for the attention, but definitely don't retard your growth for the sake of appearing non-threatening. Much better to be feared than ignored....

[jutetrea]

Hmm, I would think ideal position would be top 3 in provinces, forts, army and top 2 in gems/research. At the same time honest and willing to make a deal.

Top position seems threatening, while lower position seems weak so it would be best to stay near the top of the curve as being said.

IMO dishonesty is the worst, once you break one deal you're pretty much the lowest denominator in any future deals.

On the other hand, masses of low quality troops don't help that much and eat up the income, so troop quality needs to be considered as well as paths. Someone may look to have limited research, but they may have sped up to a high level in a particular path to take advantage of their fewer options.

Love it...now just to survive till end game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Shovah32 said:
Sorry for not being constructive but (I)n (M)y (H)onest (O)pinion opinion dosnt really work Mr Parker.

Heehee. Well being about the only person in the conversations AFAIK that has played Dom3 games anywhere near this large both AI and MP, and maps anywhere near this large, the IMHO was more out of diplomatic habit than needed. I very rarely put IMEO.

We tested the extremes pretty well in beta before the game was ever released. Altho we didnt ever achieve anything like 62 human players. But many of the best players were in those games so I figure that their actions were fairly representative of what could be done.

[MaxWilson]

Gandalf,

Shovah was actually correcting a grammatical solecism. "IMHO opinion" repeats "opinion" twice. Although I'm not sure I should even post this, since three posts on a typo seems excessive (and the laws of irony guarantee that this post will also contain at least one typo).

-Maximilian

[Meglobob]

I often get ganged up on in MP's:-

Playing MA Man - MA Arco/MA Ermor/MA Pangaea ganged me.
Playing EA Atlantis - EA T'ien C'hi/EA R'lyeh/EA Agartha ganged me.
Playing MA Ermor - MA Abysia/MA Mictlan/MA Marignon ganged me.
Playing EA Niefelheim - EA Sauromatia/EA Abysia ganged me.
Playing EA Marverni - EA Nielfelheim/EA Abysia/EA R'lyeh ganged me.
Playing MA Agartha - MA Bander Log/MA Pythium ganged me.
Playing LA Mictlan - LA Atlantis/LA Abysia ganged me.
Playing LA Agartha - LA Mictlan/LA Ulm/LA C'tis/LA Ermor all ganged me and I still won!

etc, etc, etc....

So, I know alot about being ganged up on. Why is this happening? Because (in my opinion) of the following:-

1) I am loud. By this I mean I am a regular contributor to the forum and usually the game thread. So I am noticable, making myself a target.

2) Have (usually) a strong early game, so I take the lead on most graphs.

3) I am inclined to be aggressive, especially if I detect any weakness in my neighbours. Other players take advantage, wait till I am exhausting myself in a war then attack.

4) I love casting forge of ancients!

The no.1 best thing you can have in a MP is a loyal ally who will stick with you to the very end in the late game. So far I have found 95/100 dominions players to be power mad, stick the knife in soon as look at you. A trustworthy ally is as rare as gold dust.

Btw I have offered a pact to lots of different players, of complete alliance until the end of the game where just the 2 of us have been left. I have never had it accepted, not once in nearly 20 MP games. Why I have no idea, surely finishing in the final 2 with 50% chance of winning is a good deal?

So avoid those if you want to survive...however I will have a more exciting game then you.

[jutetrea]

Wow... people really like you man... or something.

Were you being ganged before or after forge was cast?

So far I've been careful not to be too agressive, yet stay at the top of the curves. Confirming that a) I wasn't the only one attacking and b) I wouldn't be attacked in retaliation from some other direction. The only problem being that the few times this has happened so far i've conceded the enemies capital, losing both income and extra gems (but also the costlier fights) But beyond that its been working peachy with covering my back and still gobbling some provinces.

And definitely interesting discourse on enchantments, the opinions on how long something might stay up are cool... leading me wanting to try getting more up earlier just to see.