New Cold War 2020 mod version!

[Suhiir]

Starts to make you wonder if Tanks are on their way out.
I know we've all heard this song and dance before but with the introduction of top-attack ATGM's, depleted uranium armor, hyper-velocity missiles and guns, and bigger and bigger tank main guns it's getting to the point where a vehicle that can withstand the firepower of the battlefield to utilize the traditional mobility, shock, and firepower of the tank is getting so big and heavy I keep remembering the German JagdTiger or Maus - too big and heavy to be of any consequence because they couldn't go so many places due to ground pressure, inability to cross rivers (the bridges couldn't support them), and limited ammo supply due to the size of their guns.
I keep waiting for some new supertank named "Bolo Mk I" to be announced.

[Marcello]

"Starts to make you wonder if Tanks are on their way out."

For a start the sort of high intensity, high tech conflicts where this could become an issue aren't going to happen for many years. In the meantime tanks are proving themselves useful in places like Afghanistan or Iraq. No LOSAT touting OPFOR there.
Beyond that it is hard to tell.
Personally I am not particularly fond of the information dominance concept the FCS is based upon, where thin armored cars wipe out the enemy armor via PGM barrages from safe standoff ranges, but who knows?
In the timeframe where high intensity, high tech wars may become again likely robotics may be already sufficiently developed to make unmanned ground combat vehicles mainstream. If this was the case might the need for armor protection to keep human losses as low as possible might be a less pressing issue, resulting in UGCVs with thinner armor (a bit like in the 60's when steel armor was considered hopeless against HEAT, giving birth to designs like the Leopard 1)? As I said it is hard to tell.

[RecruitMonty]

It would cost too much to replace them. Bigger and heavier tanks can be developed. LOSAT toating weapons are too expensive armies will one day realise they will have to balance costs with numbers. I hope to one day see all those techies get theirs from some good old fashioned armoured warfare.

[Pats]

I hope it wont be necessary to build all those weapons ;-) anyway.
Better use them in games then in reality!

[MarkSheppard]

Well, originally, the M1 Abrams entered service weighing about 50-55 tons. Now, the latest M1A2 SEPs are what 60-65 tons.

So I would think that a lot of R*D would be going on so that we can get M1A2 SEP protection on M1 Abrams weight levels; to restore the "Expansion" potential that was lost during the Abrams' lifetime.

I've looked up the specs for the US Army's XM291 140mm ATAC gun; it weighed 91 kg *LESS* than the M256 120mm Gun, and it could even be converted to fire 120mm ammo, in about an hour by replacing the gun tube. This 120mm version of the XM291 is right now the current gun of FCS.

Then we got the various other armor technologies; like electromagnetic armor, which can defeat RPG-7 warheads, yet total power drain is less than starting the tank on a cold morning; advanced explosive reactive armor which can defeat incoming APDFS rounds by snapping the penetrator in mid flight, ARENA/TROPHY close in defense systems that launch projectiles to defeat incoming threats....

I've looked up the various Electrothermal Gun technologies; and they offer about 30% imprvoement in muzzle velocity and energy over current conventional propellant guns; while not requiring the total technological base redo that liquid propellant guns do.

Presently, the M256 120mm gun with the M829A3 round can penetrate 81cm at 1000m. If we assume muzzle velocity increases by 30% with an ETC version of the M256, then that means that a ETC M829A3 would have a penetration of around 100cm + at the same range.

[pdoktar]

DU warheads do not support higher velocities. At least yet. That´s why the L55 was abandoned by the US army as a upgrade. Tungsten penetrators can use the potential of higher velocities, but current DU is stuck in 1500-1700 m/s. That´s why the latest US DU penetrator is heavier and goes slower.

And I don´t know if M829A3 is the same as M829E3.

[PlasmaKrab]

DU warheads do not support higher velocities. At least yet. That´s why the L55 was abandoned by the US army as a upgrade. Tungsten penetrators can use the potential of higher velocities, but current DU is stuck in 1500-1700 m/s. That´s why the latest US DU penetrator is heavier and goes slower.

Not 100% sure about your reasoning here. As a matter of course Uranium is heavier than Tungsten, so DU rounds are heavier than Tungsten rounds for the same length/caliber values. So for the same initial energy (same propellant, same gun, same sabot, same temperature/pressure/whatever) a DU round will simply have lower velocity due to higher mass (kinetic energy being related to mass and square velocity and all that).
Now I don't see why DU rods wouldn't support higher velocities per se. Modern US APFSDS rounds appear to be particularly thin and long compared to equivalents (21mm for the M829E3 vs 27mm for the DM53), and this may give them a disadvantage in withholding the pressures in longer guns (though is is apparently an advantage once on target).
The French OFL-120F2, which is believed to be largely similar to the German DM-43, is DU-based and still slated with an initial velocity of 1740m/s in the Leclerc's L52 gun.
As I said, this may be due to the European rounds being substantially thicker than their US counterparts, but probably not to some intrinsic DU property.