Epic Heroes Mod MA game(finished)

[lch]

jutetrea said:
If 20 dual blessed vans demolish 20 ulm summons, I still don't see a problem. Hell, if they're even I still don't see a problem.

20 dual blessed Helhirdings cost 20*75 = 1500 gold (don't know the numbers for Vans by heart) and thus 100 gold upkeep per turn aswell. Plus their recruitment is limited by dominion level. Do the free Ulm summons even take any upkeep?

I agree with Tuidjy, whenever you introduce something to the game you can't think "oh, those are pretty nice units, users would like to play with these", but "how bad is the chance for abuse if a user exploits this to the fullest?"
Looks like an Ulm player could just keep a low profile for a couple of turns and then bulldoze over anybody with a horde of free summons. That hardly sounds like fun.

[llamabeast]

Okay, the game is indeed waiting for pretenders again, and I've removed Ulm and Pangaea.

[jutetrea]

Ok, 10 F9W9 Vans go down with few losses to the ulm summons..repeatedly. I'll check with giants/jags later.

Triple blessed jags (FWS) go down much too easy, in large #'s as well

dual blessed jotuns (EN) go down way too easy.

So, here's what I'd do (still noobish on stats)

Glass cannon
Drop HP down to 5
Give them old age
Drop magic on weapon
Go the retired veterans route

Lazy/untrained
Drop attack to 10
Raise enc to 4-6
Drop magic on weapon
(Tried this with Mict trip blessed. Attack made a huge huge difference, fatigue - not so much, they lost 20v20 twice, which makes sense against a trip bless/dual life unit)
go the clockwork route, or levies given a limited supply of magical armor

Weak/untrained
Drop attack to 12
Raise enc to 8
Drop magic on the weapon
go with weak levies with limited supply

General Nerf
Drop attack to 12
Drop Basic Def to 8
Drop HP to 10-12
Raise enc to 4-6
Drop magic on weapon

Protection - even with atk 15 flaming jags these guys were getting hit for 1's and 2's with the occasional higher. Same with Vans, and the jot's could barely do any damage.

HP - with the high prot and low damage they were taking they stood up forever

Def - with the high prot this is almost like having a luck charm... 18 def, a bit too high

Magic weps - not very pertinent in the early expansion, but very valuable against mid-late game. I'd either drop it or work the description around it. Starting with magic wep troops is big. Description says greatsword, wep says halberd.

As it is, groups of 10 of these can expand easier than Van at a much cheaper cost. They would make mincemeat of most bless rushes. I still think they should be very powerful, but more = to a good dual blessed chassis. Then the extra points could be used for better scales then a bless nation or more magic/SC. They are limited to 3/turn now which is more limited then a bless nation, so maybe 2 soldiers should = 3 dual bless units (Vans in my mind).

Just my opinion, but keep em uber - just knock em down a notch.

[Xietor]

There is going to be no more nerfing before the game starts.

The problem with these tests is that it does not take into account that human opponents will supplement their troops with battle mages that cast lighting, fireball etc.

And Ulm cannot effectively supplement their troops in battle. Because Smiths are generally not good battle mages early on. Also, Ulm is limited to 3 Black Order Soldiers per turn, and that means the Black Duke is not out searching for death magic sites, forging items, or leading in battle. There is a price to pay to have the Black Duke sitting there producing 3 troops a turn, however tough.

I saw 20 Black order Soldiers dispose of Bogus and his heroes with few or no losses. I know they are tough. But most human opponents will take advantage of their weaknesses. Something the Ai may not be smart enough to do.

And they do have weaknesses. But I am grateful for the analysis, as that is extremely useful and much appreciated.
And it was because of that analysis that they are being produced at 3 rather than 4 per turn, and are easier to hit, move slower, and get tired more readily.

[Zoshan]

Im still going to play. I will still be playing Atlantis.