Sacred Units!!

Micah · #1 June 15th, 2007, 06:23 AM

No need for evo 8, just try destruction + flaming arrows. Granted this combo works well against damn near anything sacred or not, but the giants don't really cut through chaff very fast since they need time for their auras to kick in, so they're not going to break through to the archers very quickly. Helheim has access to air mages for storm and arrow fend, plus lightning quick killing power to punch through an infantry screen. Plus if they're outmatched they can just stealth away.

Niefelheim also loses its best asset if the opposition can get off a warriors of niefelheim, or a frost ward blanket. Their nifty aura is stopped cold (couldn't resist, sorry). With CR each giant is only able to kill one opponent a round, and they won't have the advantage of being protected from melee damage by a pile of 100 fatigue enemies at their feet.

Nief is a very binary nation as far as sacreds. Either the enemy throws the right combo of troops and magi at you and utterly destroys you, or they don't and get rolled over without getting a single kill. They seem grossly overpowered until they run into the right opposition at which point they just sort of fold up like a card castle, killing a handful of chaff while they're being cut into pieces.

Much like an SC really, they have holes in their defenses somewhere. Astral SC? Well, hit them with magic duels and trade a handful of lizard shaman for a 100-gem investment. Awe-reliant or Soul Vortex SC? Undead spam them and watch them get chipped to death when their vortex doesn't heal them, no gems required. Also works great for any SC without crowd control, you can at least hit the 50 turn limit even if you can't kill them. Cut them off from retreating if you can. If they ARE decked out for crowd control hit them with your own SC with quickness and 2 AP weapons and watch them die. If they're somehow equipped to take on either of those their MR must be low since they've gotta be out of slots, so spam a few mind hunts or Vengeance castings at them...or in combat try some enslave minds, charms or soul slays. And obviously if they're not resistant to an element hit them with that.

If you just throw troops at any decently built SC you're just giving them free xp and maybe an affliction if you're lucky, but if you find the counter to them they're only going to take out some chaff before they end up dead, there's not much middle ground.

Meglobob · #2 June 15th, 2007, 09:42 AM

Darkness + skelespam stops Niefelheims giants dead. Not too difficult a combo to pull off.

I would love to know how to stop Helheims sacreds thou, so far I have tried 30 mages scripted ice stikex2, frozen heartx3, cast spells. They were guarded with 200+ troops and I had 30 giffins blessed with twist fate who flew in at Helheims army straight away. Helheim cut throu my army no sweat. He had a similar size army but half of his were just archers!

I have also tried golems with astral tempest, water queen kitted out with bling, all sorts. Nothing seems to last more then 10 rounds with Helheim and thats if I am lucky!

Micah · #3 June 15th, 2007, 10:08 AM

The queen died in the initial charge to the lance AP-damage bonus?

sum1lost · #4 June 15th, 2007, 01:23 PM

In a sp game, they fell to acid spells and reef warriors pretty quickly

length 0 hoof takes poison damage.

thejeff · #5 June 15th, 2007, 01:27 PM

Area effect poison does wonders.
Sauromatia's poison archers did a number on my Vanheres, but they are slower and unshielded.

For the repel on the length 0 hoof, (I assume you're talking about repel) doesn't it have to hit? Or do I misunderstand repels?

sum1lost · #6 June 15th, 2007, 01:37 PM

Reef warriors have this cool little thing where attackers with length 1 automatically get hit by (I think weak) poison, thanks to coral armor. Which turns off glamour the next turn by causing damage.

After that they become much more vulnerable.

Valandil · #7 June 15th, 2007, 02:38 PM

Hmm.
I really like ancestor vessals with W9D9. AFAIK both affect shooting and mel�e, hence, lots of howling affliction causing arrows. Unfortunately, pretender cannot cast either wind guide or flaming arrows.

Meglobob · #8 June 15th, 2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Micah said:
The queen died in the initial charge to the lance AP-damage bonus?

Yea, she probably did, should have had bodyguards I guess.

HoneyBadger · #9 June 15th, 2007, 08:31 PM

With Niefelheim, the first thing you want to do is research the spell that lets them fly. That takes care of them having to wade through chaff while you fire flaming arrows and such at them.

They are really handicapped against undead though-I'll testify to that-so the best thing there is to switch from Niefels to the regular priests until you've researched Dust to Dust.

With Jarls, you have to think of each one as a piece in a puzzle. Very few tactics are going to work against every single thing a Jarl can do, and one Jarl can have a significant effect on an entire enemy army. So build atleast one specifically to counter whatever tactic you think your enemy is going to throw at you.

Equip one for MR-give him a starshine, a lead shield, and an amulet of antimagic-you'll have a unit with an MR up around or above 30. Give another one morale boosters and berserker buff, boost a third with 2 swords of sharpness, a horned helmet, a ring of the warrior, and as much quickness as possible, so he can deal with heavy SCs. Give a fourth an eye of aiming and a storm bow so he can take out casters using area effect. Make a fifth resistant to everything with elemental armor and a snake ring, and equip him with a hellsword. Give a sixth a ring of regen and an amulet of reinvigoration. Arm a seventh with a holy lance and make him your Prophet, so he can deal with undead infestations.

Put them all in the same army, with decent support, and atleast 1 of them is going to do a lot of damage to whatever would otherwise stop you.

Micah · #10 June 15th, 2007, 10:59 PM

I'd much rather grab soul vortex than a spell that's easily countered by a storm (mass flight) and requires A4 when your leaders only have access to A1. At that point you'll also have arrow fend, making mass flight to counter flaming arrows somewhat redundant. Not to mention that flying units tend to get split up out of formation, which seems like a bad thing for the giants. Plus it's level 7 research compared to Flaming Arrows at level 4...