Honesty doesn't pay :(

[Fyron]

It seems to me that "jailed" and "punished" are interchangeable synonyms here that don't change the meaning of anything. There was no "tactic" involved, merely an innocent switching of the two words in my mind. Hence no, I was never trying to put words in your mouth.

I'm not sure why you have decided to take such a simple debate so personally... Gotta love the baseless ad hominem attacks.

[Ludd]

Imperator Fyron said:
It seems to me that "jailed" and "punished" are interchangeable synonyms ...

Paris Hilton may disagree with that.

[Jack Simth]

Imperator Fyron said:
It seems to me that "jailed" and "punished" are interchangeable synonyms here that don't change the meaning of anything. There was no "tactic" involved, merely an innocent switching of the two words in my mind. Hence no, I was never trying to put words in your mouth.

I'm not sure why you have decided to take such a simple debate so personally... Gotta love the baseless ad hominem attacks.

And you give yet another example of not fully reading, understanding, or processing what you're responding to; you missed a sentence:

Jack Simth said:
There's plenty of other examples in the discussion above if you want to look for them; I'm not going to spoon-feed them out further, but that one is easily demonstrated, if merely picking nits in and of itself (choice of terms).

I already admitted that the specific example used was meaningless when I made it. There are others if you care to find them, they are just marginally more subtle. That one is simply very easy to demonstrate.

Now, to be fair, I did make that post in anger; most of your posts don't do that. When you're helping someone with the game, or discussing the game, you do an excellent job. I apologize for not putting that caveat in earlier.

I'm attacking your debate behavior and tactics, not you personally. The meat of it is not an attack against you, personally. Granted, in my anger, I did use negative-connotation words in relation to you mixed in with the actual arguements. I apologize for that aspect. The meat of the point still stands, and you demonstrate it yet again.

[Fyron]

The only "tactic" used was to say that the basic assumptions used in the thought experiment (mental exercise) were wrong. Anything else was either an innocent switching of synonymous terms, or imagined on your part. Isn't the meat of an argument far more important that sitting there and nit-picking every little word used? We obviously disagree on the merits of the initial assumptions; going into some point-by-point pissing match doesn't accomplish anything.

Ludd said:
"Paris Hilton may disagree with that. "

Well, I wouldn't expect her to understand the subtleties of context.

[Jack Simth]

Imperator Fyron said:
The only "tactic" used was to say that the basic assumptions used in the thought experiment (mental exercise) were wrong. Anything else was either an innocent switching of synonymous terms, or imagined on your part.

[sarcasm]
Yes, obviously; after pointing out how you do it yet again in a later post - in the same thread, with quotes, mind, that basically anyone can check on - it must be purely imagined on my part. Right. Of course. What other explaination could there possibly be? It must be purely my fault.
[/sarcasm]
Don't get me wrong - I'm sure I'm totally missing a plank in my own eye somewhere. But your speck is getting annoying.

Imperator Fyron said:
Isn't the meat of an argument far more important that sitting there and nit-picking every little word used? We obviously disagree on the merits of the initial assumptions; going into some point-by-point pissing match doesn't accomplish anything.

Ludd said:
"Paris Hilton may disagree with that. "

Well, I wouldn't expect her to understand the subtleties of context.

actually, I AM making a distinction - an important one, even - between punished and Jailed. As evidenced by the fact that I put "criminal" in quotes. It's a token of a fairly arbitrary nature. You say it can't reflect reality? Try this on for size:

Take, for example, a test for illegeal drug use. It's not unreasonable for a test for illegal drugs that is inexpensive enough to be applied to every member of an entire corporation to be 99% accurate (in both directions). The corporation may only have a 1% "criminal" population - users, in this case. Punishment consists of a summary firing. You check 10,000 employes, the expectation is for 99 true positives, 99 false positives, and one false negative. The test indicates that you've got just under a 2% user population (1.98%, to be precise); exactly 1 in 2 positive results are false. If you actually have a 2% user population, then you're expected to get 198 true positives, 98 false positives, and two false negatives; the test indicates that you've got just under a 3% user population (2.96%, to be precise). Just under 1 in 3 of the positive results should have been negative.

There's a reason I put "criminal" in quotes and used "punished" rather than jailed. But you didn't ask why, no request for clairification, nothing of that nature. Just a direct attack saying it's all stupid assumptions. Then when, silly me, I tried to correct you on the basis of logical constructs used, you started missing fairly important stuff and replying anyway. If A -> C under circumstances B, when B is false, obviously, it says nothing at all about C; the logic statement - by definition, mind - doesn't apply. Yet there are situations where B is true, and it does apply.

There's no point in debating you, Fyron. I'm just in the mood to play the fool today.

[Fyron]

Can someone lock this thread before Jack flames me again? I guess I should have learned my lesson about trying to discuss things civilly with him last time. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

[Santiago]

actually it's quite enteraining

[Jack Simth]

Imperator Fyron said:
Can someone lock this thread before Jack flames me again? I guess I should have learned my lesson about trying to discuss things civilly with him last time. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

... as opposed to your use of terms like "pissing match"? Or saying that I'm imagining things when I can lay out what I'm talking about, plain as day? Or when you simply flat-out contradict me saying it's "unreal and don't properly reflect any sort of valid estimate"?

Yeah, lock the thread. Sure.

[geoschmo]

I see nothing yet in this thread worth locking it over, Fyron. Although I will give you both a warning if it makes you feel better.

You really should try to find a way to make your opinions a little less caustic Fyron. If you could learn to disagree with people in a nicer way you will find that your threads won't need moderator involvment as often.

Geoschmo

[Ludd]

All hail the Imperator! (Remember Thou art Mortal)