Glamour post 3.08

[Morkilus]

I don't see glamor as a changeworthy issue; the last change was in fitting with the spirit of the rules and wasn't meant as a pure "nerf" for balancing, though I'm sure the complaints had something to do with it. I don't believe there was a promise to allow everyone to destroy Vans with archers; the higher protection and regen from blesses means you had better have your own troops that can guard your archers while they do their work. I'm guessing that against the F9W9 bless you're going to do a lot better assuming you have some heavy infantry to slow them down.

[Jazzepi]

"I don't believe there was a promise to allow everyone to destroy Vans with archers"

Nobody said anything about destroying Vans. I'm talking about the 150 archers I bought doing absolutely nothing. Actually, what I ended up doing was buying a ton of melee chaff that would soak up the van's high defense, and having argatha mages spamming earth bind to reduce it further.

Neither the archers, nor the spell spammers, not the chaff worked.

Jazzepi

[Gandalf Parker]

It was archers and magic.
The anti-glamour tactics I have seen include many squads of slingers. Or area affect spells and equipment. The Gall Bladder Stick was mentioned.

There is a poison spell which does the entire battlefield which is seems to be particularly effective.

[Beorne]

Ok, so vans require again very specialized tactics (the "very" means the difference between them and the other nations). I think I'll continue to ban them from my games.

[Gandalf Parker]

as compared to Rlyeh? Ermor? Abysia? Jotunheim? Oceania? TirNaGog? Ulm?

[Velusion]

I've managed to avoid them in MP play so far .

[Shovah32]

Beorne said:
Ok, so vans require again very specialized tactics (the "very" means the difference between them and the other nations). I think I'll continue to ban them from my games.

The majority of effective strategies require very specialized tactics to deal with - if they were easy to deal with they wouldnt be effective. Your chaff and archers wouldnt have been particularly effective against most good E9N4 sacreds(they have reinvigoration, high protection and regeneration - all things that counter chaff and archers) and would probably have been ineffective against a number of other things. A group of ulmish infantry with flails backed by a couple of elephants/black knights would also probably have broken through a group of chaff and archers, does that mean MA Ulm is overpowered and should be banned?.

You cant honestly expect a group of archers to do alot against high protection, regenerating troops with shields and a horde of chaff was also a mistake as superior mounted troops(with naturally low encumberance) with higher stats, regeneration(to heal and lucky damage you inflict), reinvigoration(you cant just wait for them to get worn out) and higher stats(1v1 they will destroy chaff) can keep fighting almost indefinitely against weak troops.

[Jazzepi]

Shovah32 said:

The majority of effective strategies require very specialized tactics to deal with - if they were easy to deal with they wouldnt be effective. Your chaff and archers wouldnt have been particularly effective against most good E9N4 sacreds(they have reinvigoration, high protection and regeneration - all things that counter chaff and archers) and would probably have been ineffective against a number of other things. A group of ulmish infantry with flails backed by a couple of elephants/black knights would also probably have broken through a group of chaff and archers, does that mean MA Ulm is overpowered and should be banned?.

You cant honestly expect a group of archers to do alot against high protection, regenerating troops with shields and a horde of chaff was also a mistake as superior mounted troops(with naturally low encumberance) with higher stats, regeneration(to heal and lucky damage you inflict), reinvigoration(you cant just wait for them to get worn out) and higher stats(1v1 they will destroy chaff) can keep fighting almost indefinitely against weak troops.

Oh please, then enlighten me to what MA Argatha is suppose to do against the vans. As I said, the chaff was a part of a greater strategy. The idea was to earth meld them, so their defense would be abysmal, and just let the chaff wail away on them. I also researched my way to destruction.

Jazzepi

[atul]

Depending upon the research levels, a group of Sentinels can keep W9F9 blessed Vans put for several turns while indy archers and Golem Crafters casting Magma Bolt deal with the damage part (Ench4/Evo3, Attentive Statues (Ench3) might also work). I don't know how well that would work in the field or how cost-effective it'd be, but at least you can make Vanheim player regret ever storming your castle.

[Gandalf Parker]

Jazzepi said:
Oh please, then enlighten me to what MA Argatha is suppose to do against the vans.

Dominions isnt nation-to-nation balance. Its rock-paper-scissors balance. MA Agartha should use other nations against Vanheim.

And what about the statue and sentinel spells? HOw do they hold up against vans?