OT: Bug versus Feature

geoschmo · #1 February 8th, 2002, 04:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PvK:
The few people with reservations about it seem to want them to be harder to control that ships... maybe if "move to" orders could not be cancelled (as current drone attack orders can't be) that would appease these misgivings.

PvK

I think this is an accurate statement. The concerns that I have seen raised are that this would blur the lines between ships and drones.

If you could make swarms of no-maintenance drones and control them the same way you would ships, why would you build ships? The inability to resupply is not enough since you could put a QR or solar panels on them and wouldn't need to resupply.

I would still like to see the move-to order added, but I can understand that reservation to it.

Geoschmo

geoschmo · #2 February 8th, 2002, 08:54 PM

Perhaps we should be requesting a sub class of drones or a different unit alltogether, maybe call them probes, that can receive more complex orders such as move-to, wapr, and sentry, but cannot be fitted with weapons.

Geo

Phoenix-D · #3 February 8th, 2002, 10:10 PM

"The inability to resupply is not enough since you could put a QR or solar panels on them and wouldn't need to resupply."

Simple enough solution- don't let them carry those items!

Phoenix-D

geoschmo · #4 February 8th, 2002, 11:05 PM

True. And I haven't double checked the files, they may not be allowed now, but it would be a simple matter to mod them in to be able to if they can't now. And I suppose that would be the responsibilty of the modder for making them a possibly destabalising element.

I was simply explaining what I believed to be some peoples reason for not wanting the ability, since it was mentioned by a couple that they couldn't understand why everyone wouldn't want it.

Geo

dmm · #5 February 12th, 2002, 09:34 PM

You know, a "Probe" class would be awesome, especially if higher-level Versions were long-range, fast, and maybe long-Lasting.

And what would be REALLY great, would be if these were fitted into a proper diplomacy system. So, probes could pass through fleets, minefields, and systems of non-enemies without requiring permission or generating ill feeling. But warships could NOT do that. They would either need special permission or would need a higher level of treaty (e.g., partner). Also, maybe you should need to be in actual contact with another race to send Messages. ("Actual contact" here means you have a ship, planet, or probe in the same system as a ship, planet, or probe of the other race. One problem would be the "loss-of-contact amnesia" that the AI suffers from. But that bug ought to be squashed anyway.)

PvK · #6 February 12th, 2002, 11:38 PM

Nice probe idea. I wonder if the AI gets mad about drones in its space, currently. If drones had movement controls, you could include probes by making them small drones with certain settings.

I understand the concept of not wanting drones to be too much like ships, but I don't think giving them move orders would really do that.

Quantum reactors are not allowed on drones in Gold. Solar collectors are, but Sol Col III gives 150 supplies/turn, while a drone burns 200/turn even if it does nothing, and takes 20 kT of space.

Even if Q reactors were allowed, or a player uses 40 kT of drone space on two solar collector III's and/or keeps them in binary/trinary systems, I don't see these being confused with ships, or it being a balance issue. Quantum reactors are kind of expensive for a dinky drone (1000 mins) and take space (20 kT), and drones are small things - it'd be a big investement in a weak escort-sized vessel. There would be advantages over building actual escorts with Q reactors in the peculiar drone speed bonus, and the weird effect that drones are units and so don't suffer partial damage effects

and are not targettable by missiles or torpedoes

. However, in addition to being expensive, these drones are vulnerable to point defense, could not be retrofit, would not gain experience, would not be usable in fleets (hence no fleet experience), and couldn't carry cargo or the many other components not allowed on drones.

Personally, I'd think with a moveto order, that I might like to allow Q reactors on drones, just because it could be an interesting system to try to use. Of course, it's only about a four-keystroke mod.

PvK

geoschmo · #7 February 13th, 2002, 05:47 AM

Pvk,

These are all good points. The one thiing you are not mentioning though that drones have over ships is no maintenance. While you are correct that drones would not be a lot better than escorts, but considering you could have thousands of them, and pay no maintenance on them, they would be very econimical in the long run, if given enough solar panels to stay supplied indefinetly, or if they were modded to allow QR's.

Geoschmo