AWIY's blacklist of dishonest peoples

[Baalz]

I'm kinda surprised that so many people are so quick to ignore a NAP, and deride those who honor them as playing at a disadvantage. I see it the other way, knowing full well that I'll likely be playing future games with the same people I think wantonly backstabbing other players puts you at a pretty severe disadvantage. It's not about carrying grudges from game to game, it's just human nature that players who you backstabbed will (rightly so) be very slow to trust you, even in another game. You can talk about roleplaying all you want, but I know that if a player backstabbed me before there is a non-negligble chance it'll happen again, whereas there are other players are a much better risk investment to build friendly relations with.

The very notion of a non-binding NAP is an oxymoron, if the assumption is that you'll be attacked whenever it's in the attacker's advantage why bother saying anything? Someone who has shown me that this is their view of NAP has shown me that they don't think NAP exist at all, and thus will never have a NAP with me in any other game. Consequently they'll be high on my list of targets to attack sooner rather than later, assuming I can secure NAPs with my other neighbors. Again, not about a grudge, it's simple pragmaticisim to not ignore a de-facto threatening neighbor who I've always got to worry about an imminent attack from. I have to assume many players feel the same way, even if they don't rationalize it consciously, so the more you backstab people, the more you get screwed. Particularly since the people you're most likely see in multiple games are also generally going to be the most dangerous players.

[tromper]

Well said, Baatz. Those who've broken NAPs with me in the past are on a personal list of mine - and they will lose the chance in the future. Probably to my quick demise, but oh well. There's no ire or hatred or anything. And sharing this info with friends, perhaps, is fine. And they can make their own decisions. But on the public forum - that's rather inappropriate.

That list of game 'rules' is bogus, however. If I'm not entitled to have my personal list *based upon previous experience* with a player from a past game, as that would break some sort of arbitrary rule-set, please don't allow me to join your game(s).

[NTJedi]

tromper said:
Well said, Baatz. Those who've broken NAPs with me in the past are on a personal list of mine - and they will lose the chance in the future. Probably to my quick demise, but oh well. There's no ire or hatred or anything. And sharing this info with friends, perhaps, is fine. And they can make their own decisions. But on the public forum - that's rather inappropriate.

That list of game 'rules' is bogus, however. If I'm not entitled to have my personal list *based upon previous experience* with a player from a past game, as that would break some sort of arbitrary rule-set, please don't allow me to join your game(s).

I also agree with Baalz

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

If the game doesn't specify anything, I'm all for keeping your standards- it's one reason why I haven't broken a pact yet. Keep your private lists - I don't intend to get on them, and I can't stop you from making them if I wanted to.

However, occasionally I do want to be treacherous. So, I will have a game with that arbitrary rule-set, and you won't be invited. No ill-feelings, I'll still be okay playing with you in a regular game- but I will maintain the right to an 'evil-backstabbing game' rule-set, just like 'king of the hill', or any other arbitary rule-set.

For me, NAPs do exist, and that's why I haven't blighted your capital yet.

[Ironhawk]

Guys....

I have to say I am terribly disappointed with you all...

Here I see this thread title and I expect to see a massive flame war! But instead it was just logical conversations. Come on guys - this was supposed to be my entertainment for the afternoon!!! Hehehehe.

But seriously I am glad to see that people are discussing things so reasonably tho. I agree with the general sentiment that violating NAPs should only be treated on a game-by-game basis. IMO, there really isnt a need for a blacklist or honor-ranking system in dom because there just isnt enough treaty breaking to warrant it. Most experienced players know that thier reputation has value and won't risk it just for a slight advantage in one game.

[Gandalf Parker]

It is one of the advantages of having the gaming community tied so directly into the forum. You forum ID is your reputation.

And by the way, its not as easy to change as someone might think. These boards do not allow multiple IDs and they report multiple logins on the same IP to the moderators. Yes, of course you can change IPs also but its not like you can easily do it anytime you get a black mark on your login here.

[NTJedi]

Ironhawk said:
Most experienced players know that thier reputation has value and won't risk it just for a slight advantage in one game.

I agree, yet currently all NEW players are stuck playing as blind pigeons for months until they learn the good and bad reputation of others. A website tracking the information would remove this disadvantage for new players.

[Gandalf Parker]

If you want to do a website then go for it. That would seem to solve most of the problems. It would be off of Shrapnel, not directly supported by them or Illwinter. That is after all, the answer for anything that isnt supported by the forum.

[HoneyBadger]

I recently had to drop out of 2 MP games abruptly because it was either that or have severe personal consequences, and I felt bad about it, because I'd intended to play the games to their conclusion, but the way the game hosts was a major inconvenience that ultimately-and quickly-proved insurmountable.

I made sure to post on that game's thread so that everyone concerned would be very clear that I was quitting the game, though, and why.

To just up and quit a game without even telling anybody, that's just bad behavior.

It would be equally bad, to my way of thinking, to quit one game and continue the other, if you've made an equal commitment to both, and their weren't any other factors, such as one having a replacement standing by.

[tibbs]

NTJedi said:

I agree, yet currently all NEW players are stuck playing as blind pigeons for months until they learn the good and bad reputation of others. A website tracking the information would remove this disadvantage for new players.

But who's opinion do you base the list on?You can put up a list, but how can you guarantee it's accuracy? There are always two sides to every story.

Take for example myself, the original person accused. He said I broke the NAP, yet he stealthed his army(whose capital is north of me) through my territories and suddenly started taking independant territories south of me and thus causing the collision and annihilation of one of my armies.

In my view, an army of another nation sneaking through my lands and then taking lands that border my nation and causing the destruction of my army voids any pact or peace treaty. Those are definitely aggressive actions.