Vengeance of the dead, what the hell

[Edi]

Kuritza said:
I knew I am getting hammered with a potentially lethal overland spell still and I SAT STILL IN A FRIENDLY DOMAIN BECAUSE I COULDNT HIDE FROM IT, ITS OVERLAND! THATS THE WHOLE DAMN POINT, YOU CANT HIDE FROM THIS AXE IN MANY CASES.

So, moving around, as in not giving the enemy a sitting, guaranteed target he knows where to whack every turn isn't a potential counter? I know magic attacks come before movement, but if you manage to move out once you know you're being targeted, he needs to take the shotgun to targeting. You may not be able to hide 100% effectively, but you can try to dodge and based on what has been said, it seems that you did not try that.

Make a SC god, run the risk of having it pasted by something unexpected in the early game, because SCs actually take some time to develop. You're still screaming about sour grapes related to one game because you ran afoul of that risk.

Get back to me when you have some actual evidence of VotD being as overpowered across the board as you are making it out to be.

[Kuritza]

And then there are spies, ok? I never said my God didnt move after turn 1. Or, for arguments sake, you may be pushed back by initial attack far enough not to have much provinces to hide in. 2x bless rushes do such things to people.
Get back to you with actual evidence... and you will dismiss it again? I just gave you an example of what can happen when your nation doesnt have an access to fire brand and you rely on SC god for repelling the early rushes. Nearly every time there's some 2x bless van, or Ermor, or Mictlan, or all of them. And its fair, but 'SCs should take time to develop', so countering these rushes is not fair.

[thejeff]

Well, if his enemy has scouts out, moving the SC will probably just leave him vulnerable in a different province. Probably one with lower dominion and thus lower mr (since it was his god).

I know I try to blanket my enemies lands with scouts as soon as I can.

For the record, I don't really have an opinion of VotD being overpowered. I do think the Dead not routing when they should ("special monsters are routed" message) is cheesy and quite possibly unintended.

[Kuritza]

>> I don't really have an opinion of VotD being overpowered. I do think the Dead not routing when they should ("special monsters are routed" message) is cheesy and quite possibly unintended.

I couldnt have said it better. I had no problem knowing 400+ units will attack my God, he's a SC after all. Or that my mages wont surivive even 30-40 zombies, its ok. Thats what this spell is for, if you ask me.
Its the autokill thing that freaked me out.

[Tuidjy]

This discussion has gotten to the point where no one says anything new:

These are the three positions.

1. VotD is fine as it is. Some targets are immune, MR helps, real SCs
can handle the task, hide the target.

2. VotD is overpowered. It is very low level, it's available to bless
rushing nations, MR eventually fails, if a SC is hiding he is not SCing.

3. VotD default resolution is counterintuitive and exploitable. The
rule is 'defenders win a stalemate', constant doubling of the task will
soon make it impossible, it's stupid when the hero is unharmed but dies.

It is clear from my posts that my position matches #3. It is just as clear
where everyone else stands. This thread has descended into name calling.
Until one of developers tells us whether the current outcome is what he
had in mind, the discussion is pointless.

[BigDisAwesome]

Well put Tuidjy. I'll go ahead and chime in and agree with #3.

[Yucky]

Did your god not have Air magic? The Evocation 2 spell "Shock Wave" seems like it would be great for taking out swarms.

Since the attack takes place in the commander's dream, I suppose bodyguards are left out?

[llamabeast]

Very well put Tuidjy.

I'm a #3 guy myself.

[llamabeast]

Incidentally I think a couple of points made in this thread are not quite right.

Firstly the 81% avoidance isn't right as I understand it. Assuming the enemy mage has zero penetration nad your guy has MR 25, I think the chance of the spell getting through is less than 1% (see the +15 entry in the DRN table at the start of the manual - if my memory serves correctly in only actually goes up to +14 so the chance is off-the-scale small and you were very unlucky).

Secondly moving around can't help you with 'dodging' since rituals happen before movement. So if your enemy can see you with scouts (not too hard) he has a 100% chance of getting the right province.

[lch]

llamabeast said:
Firstly the 81% avoidance isn't right as I understand it.

Yeah, I can't count.