Vengeance of the dead, what the hell

Velusion · #1 August 8th, 2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Micah said:
...mind hunt has a variety of counters.

By variety do you mean having Astral Mages? Not exactly a lot of variety.

Unless you have an SC with just a giganto-huge number of kills equipping him with a charcoal shield or casting fire shield is usually enough eat through enough chaff undead. Unquenched Sword, and the Ark are also artifacts that will do this.

Personally - I think Mind Hunt is much stronger/unbalanced, simply because mind dual/seeking arrow can counter any astral presence. Without astral presence Mind Hunt is evil.

I would agree that there are too many remote leader killer spells (it stagnates the late game) but as compared to say, Mind Hunt, I don't think it is much worse.

Valandil · #2 August 8th, 2007, 11:06 PM

Thanks for the info, Saint Dude. I did not know that.

Obviously, the battlefield enchs. were not really proposed as a counter to VOTD, just as a way to kill 1200+ undead.
I was responding to the OP, who stated that VOTD was uncounterable, which it is not. As many of you correctly point out, these 'counters' are impractical in that they deprive your SC of the ability to act in an SC role, effectively neutralising it. This is, I think, true of several other remote assassination spells.

It is possible that VOTD is unbalancing, but it seems unlikely, given the rare occasions where it is useful. The bell of cleansing would be pretty imbalanced if it targeted non-demons too (maybe...actually, probably not).

Xox · #3 August 9th, 2007, 05:55 AM

I also vote #3

This spell is fine except for an obvious bug that causes the defender to lose a turn limit stlaemate. Defender should win that. Submit to bug list and see what devs say.

Aethyr · #4 August 9th, 2007, 08:58 AM

I also vote #3.

Kuritza · #5 August 10th, 2007, 07:14 AM

So, if we agree upon #3 (I sure do), who's going to submit it to bug list? I dont know how it's done.

llamabeast · #6 August 10th, 2007, 07:19 AM

I've done it!

Digress · #7 August 10th, 2007, 09:11 AM

On this whole doubling the horde of undead after each successful casting of VotD - should undead kills count for this spell in the first place ?

The spell isn't Vengeance of the Undead. Do mindless zombies have souls which need to be avenged ? I don't think so.

Micah · #8 August 8th, 2007, 11:12 PM

Decoys were the other option I was thinking of Vel, which obviously doesn't work whatsoever against Vengeance. It's not optimal certainly, but it helps out a good deal (I'll usually recruit a commander in a province I just took over since that happens before rituals...30g for a 50% resistance to mind hunt with no MM is a fairly good deal) If your opponent is launching volleys of them that'll go through the chaff then yes, having your own mages is the only real viable solution, but if you don't have any mages that far into the game you're kind of screwed anyhow. And it's a sweet bonus when you feeblemind their mages with astral casters, which won't happen with Vengeance.

Plus since intelligence isn't optimal the appearance of astral mages is usually enough to stop the mind hunts, even if there isn't a mage in the province. It's a lot riskier to spam it.