Opinions on Caelum (MA and other)

[Kristoffer O]

Yes, I'd say starting position is very important. Coupled with some nice early sites and an exploitable enemy and you're set.

There is a definite need for more wraparound maps.

[HoneyBadger]

I'd love to see "wraparound" as a random map feature. Infact, I'm surprised it wasn't included. Maybe it's a headache to code, or not a priority, I don't know.

Caelum's never impressed me as much as I wish it would when I play it, even Eagle Kings. I guess they just don't fit too well with my style of play, which is fine. It would be nice to see some specifically Caelum undead units, if only for the theme/graphics, but to me, even if they have raw power in the form of spells, they seem a bit lacking in interest.

I mean, to me there's something disturbing about a nation of flying birdmen with all sorts of elemental powers, eldritch origins, and magical armaments, who's sacred unit is just a regular joe trudging across the battlefield so he can whack some other guy with a sword.

Aside from that minor stuff, which is all personal taste anyway, it's really a well-designed group of nations that's fun in part because their are several good and obvious strategies for them at every age, and at the same time, plenty you can do with them outside of what's been well-established.

[Jazzepi]

Kristoffer O said:
Yes, I'd say starting position is very important. Coupled with some nice early sites and an exploitable enemy and you're set.

There is a definite need for more wraparound maps.

Yes, please More wrap arounds.

Jazzepi

[Gandalf Parker]

The problem I see with the impression of strength in Caelum is that its a hard nation to find anyone playing it AS Caelum. Many people tend to ignore the basic thematic advantages of the nation and play it was they would a Civ4 nation. Of course, in that mode its pretty weak.

Some boosts to make it better able to make use of flying armies, and cold, might help. But it would be hard to do that without making it too powerful for those who are properly playing it.

[thejeff]

It's widely acknowledged as one of the best raiding nations. That seems a fairly thematic use. But isn't enough to make it too powerful. At some point you actually have to take and hold land.

The problem with relying on the flying armies is that the flying troops are weak. Good archers, but there are cheaper good archers and archers are easy to counter. There are cheap counters to both cold and lightning, at least for thugs, that counter most of what the mages can do.

If there's a proper, thematic way to play it, that will actually work in a regular MP game (not a tiny blitz map, but not one of your huge maps either) then it shouldn't be boosted. Can you suggest one?

[Warhammer]

What I would love to do with EA Caelum is take some Eagle Kings, kit them out, put them on orders to attack archers or attack rear, and then spam Shock Wave or something similar. I think that would be cool, but I am too afraid to potentially waste such an expensive unit that way.

[Saint_Dude]

With an E9 bless and a few buffs, Eagle Kings can be very effective when used this way. They don't really need to be kitted out, although reinvigoration items are useful.

[PyroStock]

There is a definite need for more wraparound maps.

Yes, please More wrap arounds.

I'd love to see "wraparound" as a random map feature.

This.

//I haven't tried Caelum yet.

[Kuritza]

Its weak.

Troops are just bad. Archers are ok, though not stellar (shortbows). Infantry is crap. Mammoths are good, but lategame they are quite counterable. No reliable meat shield.
Mages - not stellar. High seraphs are ok with thunderstrike, but regular seraphs are so-so, even when orb lighting is researched. Lightning doesnt even reliably kill 1 regular unit anymore, quickness doesnt allow to shoot them twice per turn, etc etc.
Raiding - who said raiding?.. Decent flying infantry troops have movement 2 (not 3), take hellish amount of time to amass and dont fight that well. In fact, they die rather easily and rout all the time. And due to the fact they arent stealthy they are also vulnerable to teleporting and cloud trapezing responses, as well as global spells.
Magic paths diversity - poor. Just 2 paths, both inefficient against SC's and thugs. Also, Caelum has difficulties equipping SCs and thugs itself. There are no AOE lightning weapons, and cold AOE doesnt hurt undead, constructs etc.

So, bad troops, average mages, little sound lategame strategies I can think of. I'd rate Caelum as one of the worst nations atm.