Opinions on Caelum (MA and other)

[Xietor]

Temple guards with a water bless are capable infantry-trust me.

Mix in those high morale wingless with the mammoths and you have an unstoppable early raiding force early in the game.

Research evocation, and back those mammoths up with thunderstrike/orb lighting, and your opponent better be a skilled player or it is lights out.

And if the opponent is ma ulm, it is likely lights out regardless of the player's skill level.

[Wyatt Hebert]

Endo:

Yes, the Caelum Immolatis mod was quite interesting. My brother spent a lot of time working on that. The Caelian Legionnaire was _surprisingly_ effective.

I preferred to use them to attack, first, then, when the enemy broke, they would fire their javelins and stay back. Also, giving them the Tower Shields seriously cut down on the Friendly Fire issues Caelum normally has headaches with.

(For those unfamiliar with the mod, it changed MA Caelum into turbo-ginsu-undead-killers. They had a DW Sacred troop with 3x damage to undead weaponry, and flying Pythian/Ermorian style legionnaires. THOSE were good flying infantry.)

[Halancar]

This is going in quite a different direction, but how about giving Caelum an archer that can actually hold its own as infantry ? Something like giving the iron crow a shortbow, for instance.

Then that archer can be put on the front line (or at least in front of the other archers), where he will fire as an archer until the enemy's front line arrives, then hold his own as infantry for at least a few turns. He'll still be at best medium infantry, but the initial arrows he'll have fired should make it worth using, and give Caelum a decent alternative to the mammoth for serious combat.

I'm suggesting the iron crow because it has a reasonable resource cost and decent infantry stats, but the Caelian infantry and the iceclad are also possibilities.

If it works out, then the mammoth can be made capital-only, or given decreased morale in non-cold lands, or turned into a commander only... something to make it less available.

[quantum_mechani]

Xietor said:

So what if they can cast falling frost? How does that help when your ground troops are slow and are being slaughtered by longbows or composite bows, which are out of range of falling frost? Many maps have very few water provinces so moving on to land is essential EARLY in the game.

Every race has some possible solutions. MA Atlantis can cast water elementals in battle etc. But you have to be highly skilled imho to beat another player of decent skill when you are playing ma atlantis.

And early in the game, MA Oceania cavalry and infantry are quite good against most land races' units.

I would consider MA Atlantis much superior to Oceania on a low water maps. The effectiveness of the troops doesn't carry you for that long, and it won't be long before the almost compete dearth of battle magic makes your armies pushovers for almost anyone else.