Opinions on Caelum (MA and other)

[Kuritza]

Xietor said: Better infantry? They have tough infantry already.

On paper only

[Endoperez]

Giving all their infantry Javelins might do something. For some reason, fliers set to Hold&Attack Closest (and first firing their javelins) seem to stay in tighter groups, and Fire Rearmost also seems to work a bit better. I noticed this when testing the very promising Caelis Immolatum (sp?) mod, that was quickly discontinued.


Here's what would have to be changed.


#selectmonster 129
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 130
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 131
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 132
#weapon "Ice Blade"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 420
#weapon "Ice Blade"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 421
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 358
#weapon "Ice Blade"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 414
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

[Shovah32]

Rock dropping combat infantry could have a single-use attack(like lances) to simulate them dropping rock/s before charging in.
I also wouldnt mind a bit of a defense bonus.

I hate spanish net cafe keyboards.

[Xietor]

Temple guards with a water bless are capable infantry-trust me.

Mix in those high morale wingless with the mammoths and you have an unstoppable early raiding force early in the game.

Research evocation, and back those mammoths up with thunderstrike/orb lighting, and your opponent better be a skilled player or it is lights out.

And if the opponent is ma ulm, it is likely lights out regardless of the player's skill level.

[Kuritza]

Xietor said:
Temple guards with a water bless are capable infantry-trust me.

Huge resource cost, capitol-only. Not serious, capitol resources are better spent on wingless.

[Saint_Dude]

I am not arguing that Caelum is under-powered.

But. . .

While the temple guards are indeed capable, they are not that exceptional compared with other sacreds. And they are very resource intensive so are hard to accumulate in large numbers.

The wingless, are really pretty poor. However, when mixed with mammoths they are very effective due to the boost they provide to squad moral. I don't take this as an indication that they are a good unit. Their only role is to facilitate a cheesy exploit (which should probably be closed).

The flying infantry are simply a waste of resources.

The mammoths are very powerful in the early game. But playing a mammoth rush is not that different from playing the monkeys or arco. I would find Caelum much more interesting if they did not have mammoths and instead had more capable fliers.

[Meglobob]

Only Caelum has Mammoths don't they? So strip Caelum of them and no mammoths... Do you want to make the mammoth extinct, have you never watched ice age, how could you make them extinct again...

Rocks, rocks?!?!? Come on guys, how could they fly carrying a load of heavy rocks!?!? They use ice lances/ice blades because they are lighter then steel/iron presumably.

Personally if its not broken don't fix it and isn't Caelum ok as is?

Although alot of people seem to want to improve the caelum flying infantry which would be good but as already been said the problem lies with flying/fatigue. They fly in, lose formation and become easy targets. Its the losing formation and being open to multiple attacks that makes them weak. Not there stats.

[Xietor]

Flying infantry is NOT a waste of resources.

1.They have magical weapons, and they are effective against a solo thug taking their provinces.

2. They are great siege units with their flying bonus

3. They are effective when set to attack archers or rearmost enemies or large enemy monsters or flying units.

4. When storming a castle, and set to attack archers, they get into the heart of the besieged armies casters and divert the spell casters so that your better ground troops can get through the gate without suffering devasting barages of spells.

Caelum is fine as is if the Elephant exploit is fixed.

[Wyatt Hebert]

Endo:

Yes, the Caelum Immolatis mod was quite interesting. My brother spent a lot of time working on that. The Caelian Legionnaire was _surprisingly_ effective.

I preferred to use them to attack, first, then, when the enemy broke, they would fire their javelins and stay back. Also, giving them the Tower Shields seriously cut down on the Friendly Fire issues Caelum normally has headaches with.

(For those unfamiliar with the mod, it changed MA Caelum into turbo-ginsu-undead-killers. They had a DW Sacred troop with 3x damage to undead weaponry, and flying Pythian/Ermorian style legionnaires. THOSE were good flying infantry.)

[Halancar]

This is going in quite a different direction, but how about giving Caelum an archer that can actually hold its own as infantry ? Something like giving the iron crow a shortbow, for instance.

Then that archer can be put on the front line (or at least in front of the other archers), where he will fire as an archer until the enemy's front line arrives, then hold his own as infantry for at least a few turns. He'll still be at best medium infantry, but the initial arrows he'll have fired should make it worth using, and give Caelum a decent alternative to the mammoth for serious combat.

I'm suggesting the iron crow because it has a reasonable resource cost and decent infantry stats, but the Caelian infantry and the iceclad are also possibilities.

If it works out, then the mammoth can be made capital-only, or given decreased morale in non-cold lands, or turned into a commander only... something to make it less available.