What kind of sock puppet are you?

[HoneyBadger]

That's the whole thing though, Gandalf, the whole idea that there is somehow an honorable way to persue a war, *is* a joke.

War is an activity which destroys all honorable activities. Now it's true that one's actions in a war can be morally better or worse, and war certainly can be an unfortunate necessity-I'm certanly not a pacifist-but trying to attach some higher spiritual meaning or pride to such an act of massive death and destruction is just an illusion caused by the kind of thinking that gets one into, and then loses, wars.

Now, I want you to understand that I know where you're coming from, and I know that their are relatively "honorable" reasons to enter into, and act during, a war, but I would much prefer to talk about ethics over honor, because, in my opinion, only the first one should be persued. I also want you to understand that I would never want to insult you, or any other American soldier, because you're protecting me and mine, and that's an honorable, beautiful thing that I'm totally supportive of and appreciative of. But to me, honor in war-through war, and fighting, period-is a very relative, and dubious, thing.

One goes to war because one has to, and one acts in war in a way that gets the job done-and hopefully, in the least ugly way. But it's still an ugly business, and putting a value of your honor greater than the value you put on your life, loved ones, citizens, country, well doing so has killed a lot of good people unnecessarily.

As a martial artist (I'm not physically what the army's looking for, trust me, so no, I'm not speaking from a military experience, just from what I believe), I've always been taught to fight without pride, to end whatever is threatening me as efficiently as possible, and reduce the damage done to all parties as much as possible, as long as the threat is ended. Honor doesn't, and should never, come into it.

I have no interest whatsoever in looking good in a fight. I'd rather look like a complete jerk than have one of my loved ones or myself hurt-but even if you extend that to a world-affecting situation, an effective military strategy that reduces civilian casualties and damage to a minimum, and does *not* persue something as awful as a war-especially as awful as a modern war is capable of being-as anything other than a dirty, dull, and ugly job that *must* be done, and gotten over with as quickly as possible, is going to get my support every time over one that chooses to persue points of "honor" to their most extreme and tragic end. It should also get the support of the world community.

[Aethyr]

Hmmm...

Methinks thou hast highjacked the thread...and perhaps may need to reconsider your definition of "honor".

In the true definition of the word, I think you will find that it is not mutually exclusive with some of the very things you believe in.

[HoneyBadger]

Sometimes, it's the meaning of a word that matters-other times, it's the word itself, and what it invokes.

[HoneyBadger]

By this I mean that you can't eat honor, honor doesn't stop bullets, all honor is, is the strength of character to make what you believe to be the right choices, despite the consequences, due to a belief.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ahhh I see. You are talking at a unit level. I think most of us were talking at the pretender level.

[Saint_Dude]

Religious definitions of "honor" can be some of the most brutal.

[HoneyBadger]

I'm sorry for hijacking the thread, by the way.