Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (finished)

[Tuidjy]

Actually, Sombre is very much correct. "Pfff" is exactly the sound demons make
when a quarrel embeds itself in their gut. Our soldiers have become quite used
to the sound. And, of course, by that time, no further proof is needed.

[Jazzepi]

Alright, I'm going AI. I'll remember to avoid pacts with people who use roleplaying as a pretext to ignore them at their convenience, not that it matters much.

Jazzepi

[Tuidjy]

Hold a freaking second! I have every single piece of correspondence ever
exchanged between the two of us. I sent you four messages:

In the first I agreed to three turns of peace, during which you would observed.
I said I would be looking for demons, undead, and blood slaves.

In the second I agreed to a three turn non-aggression pact, and once again, I
stipulated that I will not tolerate unholy activity. I asked for clarification
on one point of the agreement. You did clarify it.

In the third, I spelled out the terms, and twice I stated "We will attack if we see
demons, undead, or sacrificial slaves." I explicitly asked you to return the
signed treaty, i.e. to confirm my terms. You did not answer that message.

In the fourth, after seeing Dog Soldiers in the castle near my borders, I
pretended being unsure whether they were "the members of a strangely named
regiment, or unholy crossbreeds". I stated that I was worried that you had not
returned my previous message, that Ulm "will exit the treaty in the most
honorable manner", and would still give you the three months that the treaty
called for. I had no plans to attack, but by no means was I bound by any
treaties after those three turns.

So, Hell no, I am not ignoring any treaties! Even if you had confirmed the
treaty, which you did not, even if I had not exited it correctly, which I did,
you had the audacity to bring demons to my freaking borders, which was a
violation of the terms of the treaty, and which I made damn clear in every single
message.

I, the player, demand an apology.

[Jazzepi]

Oh no, those are definitely the terms of the treaty. It's really silly though, if you look at Jomon's makeup every caster, almost all commanders, and the high morale units are demons/undead. There's no possible way for me to even come close to abiding by the terms of it. Since I'm breaking it all the time, you might as well have a free "breaking of the treaty card" ready.

Also, I didn't bring those units to you borders, you attack Sylvania and happened to stumble upon them. You ignored the fact that I had "dogmen" commanders earlier during the establishment of the treaty, and offered not to push your scouts any deeper. That seems a fairly trite convenience to me. I mean, really, if you're trying to be uber anti-demon/undead/blood sacrifice I think it is your duty to investigate with that, and other, scouts instead of just leaving it up in the air.

But however you want to play your nations is fine, and I did agree to the terms, which in my opinion you know, and I know, I could never abide by simply by the makeup of Jomon's recruitable units. I didn't mean to offend you personally, but I will be much more wary of making pacts with people who are heavy role players. I'm here to play the game itself. Role playing is not high on my list, at all.

Admittedly pretext is a bad word to use. I don't think there was any subterfuge in Tuidjy's treaty, but invariably the reason the treaty was broken is for role playing, and not strategic, reasons.

Jazzepi

[Tuidjy]

Well, I had announced that I considered Ulm at war with the demons very early.
I was surprised you were asking for a treaty, but technically, what did the
priests know about Jomon? They had not seen demons, the troops we'd seen
happened to be mercenaries and humans, and you were being peaceful. I thought it
made sense that they would accept. Afterwards, when the scouts noticed the Dog
soldiers, it was only player knowledge that told me they were demons. I thought
the treaty was untenable, and I exited it, following the terms to the letter.

As for he final 'pretext', yes, I was moving east, but you did bring demons at my
original borders. By that time, I had decided to invade, but remember that the
treaty was no longer current. Furthermore, I had just discovered that Ulm's
national summons are undead... and I discovered it by summoning them, so the
priests could only object to demons with a straight face.

I am usually not a roleplayer. I am making an effort in this game, because I
love the mod... but I do not use roleplaying as an excuse to lie and cheat. In
any case, now that the misunderstanding is cleared, it's time to get down to
business. And business for Ulm is mostly killing demons. It is amazing how much
of that we have been doing, lately.

By the way, do not feel bad about this game. It's hard to survive as the central
power. The only thing has worked for me is to pair the neighbors two by two and
start a war with half of them, letting the other half have more than they
deserve. You pulled it off perfectly with Vaettiheim and Teutianon, and Ulm was
constantly at war anyway. The elves were your downfall. We are only bringing
the last nail to the coffin. And it looks like a crossbow quarrel :-)

[Jazzepi]

I seriously don't think that Jomon has any game against Sylvania, they're just far too vulnerable to the massed archers thing + fear shock troops. Despite getting my butt wooped on a strategic level by Sylvania's raiders, even at a tactical level I NEVER won a single decisive battle despite mixing morale 17 demons with the calavary, and bringing along priests to spam sermon of courage.

For about the 10th time this game I managed to attack Sylvania in their capital. Killed their god. Had the entire force surrounded by an overwhelming force of calvary and demons, and they just broke.... again. It's soooo frustrating.

The low morale thing + lack of shields makes me really scratch my head on how you're suppose to play this nation against massed archers. You just get abused from afar so badly by the time you close your lower morale forces you to route.

I'm playing the regular LA Jomon in another game and it's extremely refreshing. The high morale + sermon of courage + fighting in friendly dominion gave me calvary with 17 morale against Abysian humanbred infantry with 9 morale. Despite charging through a horde of arrow fire, and fireballs the calvary and infantry didn't have a single squad break.

So, basically, I think Sombre made this mod if that's correct? Something has to give with this whole morale deal, it's just too bad to play it the way it is right now. I would shudder to think what would happen to New Jomon against a nation with panic-spam. Here are my suggestions.

1. You give them real chaff troops. Not the extremely low morale ones they have right now. Give them troops that are "equivalent" to the lobo guards that Ry'leh has. They need to be mindless. It's okay if they still have low protection, no shields, just as long as you have something to catch arrows while the unprotected low morale calvary flank. I think this would be the best, and most thematic, suggestion. It's easy to see why the enslaved samurai thrulls would be mindless. You could say that the calvary represent an elite group of Jomon warriors that are not mindless, but just enslaved.

2. Give the nation access to air for fog warrior and arrow fend.

3. Give the nation a level 3 priest to recruit, preferably one with flying, so that they can cast fanaticism by giving that level 3 priest the rank of prophet.

4. Give them access to a troop type with shields.

I'm not the best player in the world, but I think I'm OKay, but these are the suggestions I have.

Jazzepi

[Sombre]

To Tuidjy: To the Ulmish they aren't undead in the sense of reanimated corpses or ghouls or vampires, they're effectively angelic/spirit beings given physical form by the White Priests. They're as holy and righteous as the xenophobic supercharged crusaders (Reborn guard), terminator like portable brainwashing/gulag/killing machines (Anchorites) and heretic torturing inquisitors (black priests). As a deeply religious nation, Ulm Reborn turn hypocrisy into an art form, so deeming enemy undead as unholy shouldn't be a problem for them.

Attacking Sylvania out of nowhere is also entirely justifiable for Ulm - they can happily be roleplayed as an /extremely/ aggressive nation.


Jazzepi: Thanks for your suggestions. Let me go through them bit by bit.

1. I could indeed give them some mindless samurai, that's a good suggestion and fits the theme, so I'll think about what I can do. They're getting mindless undead handmaidens in the next version, which they will be able to amass in quite some quantity a low level death magic spell. They will be relatively good units too, better than ghouls/skellies etc. Let me say at this point I don't understand your constant emphasis on the cavalry - you keep complaining about how awful they are, but you continued to use them as your main unit. They are supposed to have a morale issue, it's a feature of the race - they are cheap considering how much damage they can do - if you can stop them from routing they are a bargain. If you can't,.. well you might want to build something else. If the other options (the thrall infantry etc) are no good, well that needs to be mentioned/changed.

2. They already have BFEWD in the late era and all at level 2+ guaranteed. They'll have to find another way around problems vs missile fire. You can't always have a perfect answer to everything.

3. A flying level 3 priest just because their troops have a morale issue? They just aren't that religious, so they aren't getting above level 2. They will have some more and different maiden commanders in the next version though, including a blood hunter and a cheap on-foot seducer/spy.

4. If I gave them shields they wouldn't be very jomonese.

I'm unsure as to how Jomon Broken stacks up vs Jomon. I believe they have more powerful magic, but clearly they lack the higher quality general troops and the longbows. If they are significantly weaker, I am completely willing to improve the nation in an effort to improve their balance, but I'm not going to add shields or air magic or remove the lack of morale or give them level 3 flying priests because that's a matter of flavour and theme more than balance.

Of course it's possible that some of Sylvania's units are overpowered - the sacred is currently looking a bit too good to me, but they have their own weaknesses. I agree that Jomon Broken doesn't match up too well against them, but as long as it isn't a hopeless wash, that doesn't bother me much.