TOTAL WAR 1985

[Smersh]

very nice. looking forward to more scenarios.

[valo2000]

one thing i dont know that there is a Airport called Hegel in berlin. we call it Tegel ;P

[wulfir]

valo2000 said:
one thing i dont know that there is a Airport called Hegel in berlin. we call it Tegel ;P

Well..., just weeks prior to WWIII the airport was renamed in honour of the great German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.

Originally Immanuel Kant had been suggested, but a popular British comedy group had constructed a song where the ryhme "Immanuel Kant was a real p*ssant" was included, and there was some speculation as to this being the reason why Hegel was chosen in the end. Later events (WWIII) greatly overshadowed the various twists surrunding the renaming of the airport.



No, seriously...., it's a typo.

[narwan]

Hmm, wasn't Hackett the guy who made the dutch look bad in the fight!

[wulfir]

The Dutch..., IIRC there was something about Dutch troopers having too long hair..., but look bad, I dunno - the Danes and Italians get hammered..., so too the Austrians..., the Finns don't even fight...hmm...

[Palle]

Originally Posted by wulfir

The Dutch..., IIRC there was something about Dutch troopers having too long hair..., but look bad, I dunno - the Danes and Italians get hammered..., so too the Austrians..., the Finns don't even fight...hmm...

Sounds a bit dubious to me. It is no longer 1940 and we Danes at least were NOT prepared to go down without a fight in the late 80-ies despite the "Footnote-Policy", as an example of Danish determination the Home Guard peaked at 71000 members in the late 80-ies.

In the Danish armed forces at that time (which I have been a mamber of since 1988) that we would probably be overwhelmed by sheer numbers unless reinforced. But that we expected to go down fighting hard and would be reinforced on Day 4+ of an invasion. That the WAPA expected to take us out in 2-4 days but that we could hold for 5-6 even without support and would then go Guerrilla to the end. We would never- EVER be taken without a fight and that 9th of April burned us with shame.

Italians... dunno, it is no longer 1940, seems to me that their pros are pretty good and Italy was made for defence as the W.Allies discovered in WWII. Austria is very defensible as well, and Finland not even fighting is ridiculous. Finland... anyone heard of Sisu?

[wulfir]

Originally Posted by Palle

Sounds a bit dubious to me.

The Third World War: August 1985 is a book written by the British general John Hackett in 1978. The purpose was a bit to "open the eyes" of people. It focus on a fictional NATO vs WP war of 1985, in broad terms but also brings up events in other parts of the world, not just Europe.

In 1982 a squel was published called The Thrid World War: The Untold Story. It has probably the same message but focus on other subjects, much is form the Soviet/WP point of view, but chapter 12 is called The Scandinavian Campaign.

It details events leading up to Swedish and Soviet air and naval clashes, and expands on events in Finland, Norway and Denmark.

The loss of Jutland on the first day of hostilities, and the consequential loss of Schleswig-Holstein shortly after was due to the combination of an intense chemical attack on Jutland and a coup de main by assault forces concealed in Soviet, East German and some ostensibly neutral merchant ships on passage through the Kattegat. These had made almost unopposed landings in Aarhus, Aalborg and Frederikshavn on Jutland.

Zealand had fallen after hard fighting between the reinforced Danish defence and a seaborne assault force mounted from the western Baltic ports. Unexpectedly, Bornholm, its radar and radio resources smashed by air attack, had been left to its own devices until, almost at leisure, a Polish airborne division had fallen upon it.

Many of the Allied aircraft in the BALTAP (Baltic Approaches) Tactical Air Force escaped to the Federal Republic of Germany or to Norway. A daring naval operation, covered by air, was mounted by Commander, South Norway, to rescue some of the Danish and British troops from Zealand and in the final phase of the battle for the island. Though four of nine warships and transports were lost, the remainder returned intact to unload in the Oslo fiord. The aircraft and troops from BALTAP were absorbed as reinforcements to south Norway, or moved to reinforce the north.

Later on the Finns turn on the Soviets, I'm guessing the author(s) had heard of Sisu:

On that morning, too, CINCNORTH learned from his colleague, the Chief of the Norwegian Defence Staff, that the Finns had turned upon the Soviet Forces in their country. Since early in August, the Finnish armed forces had been obliged to aid deployment of the Red army in the passage of formations, ground and air, across their large, empty land. Soviet war regulations had been enforced along these lines of communication, arbitrary demands made for resources of labour and material, war measures introduced such as the blacking out of all lights at night. The Finnish people, conditioned by the prudence of Paasakivi and Kekkonen, had complied to some extent with these requirements. But they were also the same sort of people that Mannerheim had led, a people with a clear idea of individual liberty.

When the moment came to turn upon the Soviets, it was not done by a signal from above; indeed, it followed a spontaneous act of indignation arising from the arrogant behaviour of the officers of a Soviet logistic control centre. It was not done so much on the basis of attacking a body of waning power but at a time when the Finns could no longer tolerate the position of manifest subservience to which they had been brought. Small though their numbers were, all but a handful turned to fight the Soviet forces, which had seemed to make them a dependency once more.

[The_Warrior]

narwan said:
Hmm, wasn't Hackett the guy who made the dutch look bad in the fight!

No. I read both books and if I remember right, the Dutch did well. In the battle of Minden(Third World War, The Untold Story), the Dutch with U.S. Air Force support stop an Warsaw Pact break out attempt cold.

[narwan]

I was thinking more off the breakthrough on the north german plain which was mainly defended by the dutch while we all know the red hordes wouldn't stand a chance against out long-haired samsoms.

(Just some harmless chauvinism here)

[The_Warrior]

Ahh yes. Northern part of Germany was Defended by the Dutch, Belgiens, Germans and the Brits. Northern part of Germany would be the hardest to defend because it's wide open flat lnd and rolling hill. Perfect tank country.